Real Deal

Anyone actually see Magic perform in the post-season? Because people like bringing up Kobe's mistakes... Yeah, great players have made mistakes. Michael was dominated by the Orlando Magic in 1995, first getting ripped by Nick Anderson to lose a playoff game, then throwing a terrible pass to Scottie (that sailed out of bounds) to lose the deciding game of that series, what Phil calls Jordan's worst moment ever. But Mr. Perfect, Magic Johnson, who was throwing nearly 4+ turnovers almost every season he played...he would NEVER make a mistake like those two. Not Magic, who shot 31% in Game 2 versus the Bulls in the 1991 Finals, then shot 33% in the deciding Game 5, as Scottie Pippen lit him up for 32 points, 13 rebounds and seven assists on 46% from the field. Are we talking about the same Magic who shot 39% and threw just seven assists per game in the first-round loss against Houston in 1981? According to you, he was already the clear-cut leader. Where was he then? What about the Magic that averaged just 11.7 points, 3.7 rebounds, and 8.0 assists against the Pistons in the 1989 NBA FInals? Far from his typical, amazing playoff numbers the previous season against Detroit in the Finals (21/6/13). How would you grade Magic's shooting in the 1983 NBA Finals, when Cheeks and Erving were all over him, forcing him to shoot 40% from the floor with an average of six turnovers per game, in an ugly sweep? Let's not overrate what Magic has done. He's lucky to have the teammates he did for his entire career.

Done playing your little games. I don't know who else is in on it, but it's over for you.

Funny, but he didn't have to do that.

What the [expletive] do you think I've been saying this entire time? Re-read my posts, instead of following me around. I stated that the Magic beat the Lakers both times in the 2009 regular season. The Lakers beat their ass in the Finals. I stated that the Wizards beat the Celtics three of four in the 2008 regular season. Boston would've wiped the court with them in the playoffs. If Charlotte somehow, someway, found a way to make the playoffs, they'd get destroyed. The next time you try and talk basketball with me, you need to better prepare yourself and know who you're quoting and why you're doing it. I would've expected you to know that by now.

Looks better than he did a few times after that injury, but he's got a long ways to go, definitely not the same McGrady, and you can tell by the way he runs up and down the court and how he seems to push off that leg/foot less than he needs to.

Hmm... So this must have been all BS, huh? Or is your post in here BS? Just to have some more fun with you, Boston is 5-9 in their last 14 games against the Washington Wizards. In fact...they were 1-3 against them in 2008, when the Celtics ended up winning the championship. So, using your impeccable knowledge and logic, the Wizards just have to be better than the Celtics...or, as you put it... Wizards > Celtics. You can either try and keep up with me, or fall behind. You'll never, ever pull ahead.

Yeah, there was meaning to it. But I'm going to close it now. Just note the two members who think that Rajon is a better shooter than Ray Allen. Thanks for voting, guys. Closed.

Expected. You drop your knowledge just to get back at me for crushing you in the Bobcats defense topic. Using your incredibly-flawed logic, Lamar Odom is a better shooter than Dwyane Wade, Mike Miller, Ray Allen, Brandon Roy, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Durant, Deron Williams, Kobe Bryant, Mo Williams, Jason Terry, Paul Pierce, Ben Gordon, Danny Granger, Richard Hamilton, Carmelo Anthony, Rashard Lewis, Kyle Korver, OJ Mayo, Raja Bell, Joe Johnson, Jason Kapono, among others. Good call.

10th to 8th isn't that big of a jump at all, especially when the points per 100 possessions is nearly the same (not improved, actually). From 10th to 8th actually means other teams improved, while Denver stayed nearly the same. Whatever you said about rebounding makes no sense at all, especially your comment about their struggles with offensive rebounding and Iverson's quick shot, when the Nuggets pulled down more offensive rebounds in 2008 than they did in 2009. Anything else?

If Zach Randolph defers, the team can win 40+ games. Iverson needs to be the point guard, and he needs to score the ball. Otherwise, he won't be effective, and Mayo will continue to see defensive pressure. Assuming Iverson becomes the 25 PPG scorer he can be, Mayo will get more open looks, and Iverson will find him (doubt it all you want, you're wrong, and you can look at his past numbers if you need help with it). Two-man game, Iverson and Mayo...along with Rudy playing like a true wing...the Grizzlies can do much better than they did last year.

Again, Denver didn't improve that much, defensively, and there are in fact stats that show it. Defensive rank 2008: 10th 2009: 8th Points allowed per 100 possessions 2008: 106.3 2009: 106.8 (really?) 3PT% allowed 2008: 36.3% 2009: 36.6% FG% allowed 2008: 45.7% 2009: 44.0% Now here's where the bigs factor in again... Rebounds allowed 2008: 3722 2009: 3382 Massive improvement in keeping teams off the glass. That has nothing to do with Billups and his Iverson-matching three boards a game, but the fact that you got Nene back, along with Chris Andersen. I'm not sure what else you want to discuss. It's all right there.

Expected it. He'll be good for the Princeton offense. I wonder if he'll camp out more, awaiting a three?

They just showed Derrick Rose draining a three-pointer, and playing exceptional defense, two things he doesn't do in real life. But the game is still going to be sick.

1) His hands were big enough to palm the ball very easily. 2) Better body control just in case he was hit in the air (which happened plenty of times). 3) It's easier for a defender to stop a dunk with a foul, two-handed, as long as you get one of two arms. 4) More elevation with one hand. I've seen him catch alley-oops two-handed, though. But yeah, most of his dunks are one-handed. Same with some of the better dunkers at the guard and small forward positions in the league (from LeBron and Josh Smith, to Vince and Kobe back when they were dunking five times a game).

Don't go off and act like Bosnian. I have decided to sit in this topic and give you a debate, and you want to go that route? Iverson (DEN) in 2008: 26.4 PPG (45.8% FG), 7.1 APG, 2.0 SPG, 3.0 TO/G, 3.0 RPG Billups (DEN) in 2009: 17.9 PPG (42.0% FG), 6.4 APG, 1.2 SPG, 2.2 TO/G, 3.0 RPG Statistically, you are wrong. Iverson contributed more to Denver. He shot better, scored more, threw more assists (despite missing Nene), had more steals, just as many rebounds as a larger Billups. So here's what you're saying: Allen Iverson's leadership is worse than Billups' leadership. And that's what caused the four extra wins? I think it has more to do with adding Nene's 14.6/7.8 on 60% FG, and Chris Andersen's 2.5 blocks and six rebounds in just 21 minutes of play. I know you're wrong, because Billups didn't produce enough to help this team as much as you're advertising. In fact... Carmelo Anthony, 2008: 25.7 PPG, 49% FG, 7.4 RPG, 3.4 APG Carmelo Anthony, 2009: 22.8 PPG, 44% FG, 6.8 RPG, 3.4 APG Melo had a worse season with Billups. Kenyon Martin shot a better percentage from the field with Iverson (54% versus 49%). JR Smith shot a better percentage from the field with Iverson (46% to 45%). Linas Kleiza shot a better percentage from the field with Iverson (47% to 45%). Now are you ready to admit that Nene's offensive production, and Chris Andersen's defensive production, helped this team more than anything else? Or are you going to stay in denial because of your hate for Allen Iverson?

I'm pretty sure I didn't compare the two's games in anything you just posted. I told you how their respective teams did with and without them. And I STILL didn't say Iverson played good defense. I said that he at least made an attempt to play it, unlike an injured Manu, which helped cripple his team even more. If anything, THAT would have been the furthest I had gone to compare them, yet it had nothing to do with comparing the two players. Nice sidestep, though. Why not just answer it? The point is, the Nuggets advanced further into the playoffs because they avoided the Lakers in 2009 (until the WCF). If they had done that the previous year, they probably had a chance of getting there, but the Spurs would have been in the way, more than likely. Now if there's anything I need to spell out for you even clearer, you let me know. And so we aren't lost... Your argument is that the Nuggets are four games better, and a WCF team, because of Billups. My argument is that the Nuggets are four games better, and a WCF team, because of Nene, Birdman, the absence of Camby, and the teams you played in the first and second round of the playoffs. Is that all that I need to cover for you?

Why would I support my brother's favorite player when he doesn't even like the NBA anymore, and when we grew up together with him in my ear about how much better Iverson was than Bryant? That's already out of the discussion. I've said numerous times that Iverson doesn't play defense (in the past). I put him in the same category as Larry Hughes, who could steal the ball but gambled too much. I never compared Manu and Iverson. Don't go off-track. I simply stated that the Spurs went from WCF to first-round exits because of the team they played. Answer this: would the Nuggets pass the first round in 2009 if they had played the Lakers? Easy answer. On the other hand, what about in 2008? If Denver had avoided the Lakers, what were the chances they would've beaten the Jazz, or that Hornets team? Rockets? Don't forget to add Nene to the mix, and Chris Andersen...then answer the question. In fact, even better...how many more wins would the 2008 Nuggets have if it were Melo, Iverson, Nene, Andersen, Smith, K-Mart and Kleiza? Four? More? Is Nene that irrelevant to this team? And yeah, I am blind.

Uh, yeah, because if I spit five times on the sidewalk, and you spit four times, that means I would have spit more times than you, and I'm going to be the one to spit the furthest.

Jordan lost a game against Boston by trying to beat them with a final shot. I'll look it up if you want. We're done.

Then the same should apply to Shaq if he was out 16-feet from the rim. Stay consistent with what you said earlier, that Shaq was a better shooter than Kobe. That was it. You didn't consider the shots they took, just as you didn't consider Magic's drives to the rim, and his short shots, so don't do something different for Shaq. You're wrong, just as you have been in this topic the entire time, and it's embarrassing that I wasted my time in here when I could've been sleeping or debating on my Lakers site. I'm logging out. You can have your last word, because this has become completely worthless to me. I'll lock my own topic once you post whatever. Hurry up.

Poor decision? Sort of like Jordan missing a jumper to beat the Cavaliers back in 1990, during his 69-point game, and had to go into overtime to win the game instead?

No, Kobe or Iguodala. Stop avoiding it.

Iverson also drops 30 a game and throws assists, and played at least some attempt at defense, making steals. Manu was almost completely useless on the floor if he wasn't scoring the ball.

Good way to avoid that one. Answer the Iggy/Kobe one now.

So that's why Magic took that infamous hook over two Boston players? Or when he banked that long-ass three-pointer off the glass without even looking at the rim, to beat another buzzer? Yeah, Kobe's decision-making has always sucked. That's why he facilitated a dynasty.