Most fearless prediction in OTR history

[YugoRocketsFan]

Depends on who is guarding Ron, and how much pressure the Celtics put on Bryant. If they leave Ron open, there's a chance he'll light them up.

 

I will admit I was somewhat wrong (because it was through that injury) when I said Ron wasn't able to hit wide-open shots. He does miss a few, but he was shooting 40% from three before he was injured, if I remember right, and he showed he could do it the other night as well.

 

It depends who they are rotating on Kobe, I am sure they will try rotating Rondo on Kobe, Pierce on Kobe, depending on who is doing better, if Fisher has an off-night, you will see more Rondo coming in for the double, same thing with Ron having an off-night.

[Ben]

Lakers have no challenge getting into WCF at all, what an easy trip to the finals, i was expecting the Nuggets to be their biggest challenge but Utah shut them down, in the other hand, the C's, which are obviously gonna sweep Orlando, had a rough trip to the Finals, Taking down Wade's Talented Miami Team, and prolly the team with the best record this season, Lebron's Cavs, and possibly Dwight's Orlando is next, who also Sweeped ATL and CHA 4-0, and we all know those two teams are talented as hell.

 

Prolly Celtics will win this in 4 or 5 against LAL.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Lakers have no challenge getting into WCF at all, what an easy trip to the finals, i was expecting the Nuggets to be their biggest challenge but Utah shut them down, in the other hand, the C's, which are obviously gonna sweep Orlando, had a rough trip to the Finals, Taking down Wade's Talented Miami Team, and prolly the team with the best record this season, Lebron's Cavs, and possibly Dwight's Orlando is next, who also Sweeped ATL and CHA 4-0, and we all know those two teams are talented as hell.

 

Prolly Celtics will win this in 4 or 5 against LAL.

 

Celtics sweeping the Lakers? i'll color my hair pink for a week if that happens.

[Ben]

Celtics sweeping the Lakers? i'll color my hair pink for a week if that happens.

 

prepare your hair dye and camera by the way.

[Real Deal]

Lakers have no challenge getting into WCF at all, what an easy trip to the finals, i was expecting the Nuggets to be their biggest challenge but Utah shut them down, in the other hand, the C's, which are obviously gonna sweep Orlando, had a rough trip to the Finals, Taking down Wade's Talented Miami Team, and prolly the team with the best record this season, Lebron's Cavs, and possibly Dwight's Orlando is next, who also Sweeped ATL and CHA 4-0, and we all know those two teams are talented as hell.

 

Prolly Celtics will win this in 4 or 5 against LAL.

So wait...the Bobcats, Heat and Hawks are all talented and tough teams, but the Thunder and Jazz are no big deal, despite winning 50 and 53 games in the tougher Western Conference, where they have to play eight 50+ win playoff teams four times a year? That's pretty weird.

 

Your analysis is a little off, by the way. You mention the sweeps and how significant they are, but Boston didn't sweep the Heat OR the Cavaliers...and it was only one year ago that the Cavaliers dropped the Pistons and the Hawks in eight games (two sweeps) before getting jabbed to death by a team that matched up perfectly with them.

 

Ironically, that same team that beat "the best team in the East" (you know, the one that swept the first two rounds) ended up losing to the Lakers in five games in the NBA Finals.

 

Just something to think about, of course.

[Ben]

So wait...the Bobcats, Heat and Hawks are all talented and tough teams, but the Thunder and Jazz are no big deal, despite winning 50 and 53 games in the tougher Western Conference, where they have to play eight 50+ win playoff teams four times a year? That's pretty weird.

 

Your analysis is a little off, by the way. You mention the sweeps and how significant they are, but Boston didn't sweep the Heat OR the Cavaliers...and it was only one year ago that the Cavaliers dropped the Pistons and the Hawks in eight games (two sweeps) before getting jabbed to death by a team that matched up perfectly with them.

 

Ironically, that same team that beat "the best team in the East" (you know, the one that swept the first two rounds) ended up losing to the Lakers in five games in the NBA Finals.

 

Just something to think about, of course.

 

All i meant was, It would have been enough tougher if they faced the nuggets instead of the jazz, And i didn't say OKC isnt talented at all, i only said easy, despite the fact that it would have been tougher if its the nuggets.

on the east side, prolly what i meant is if you compare The celtic's road to finals and the Lakers, its completely diff. the C's def wade's Heat,bron's Cavs, and now Dwight's Orl, which is probably the prospected team that would win in the finals if cavs were elimated. tbh, im not feeling the energy the lakers have last year compared to this year, sweep or not, i think lakers won't be having there repeat, just my opinion.

Rondo > Fisher

Allen < Kobe

Pierce = Artest

KG > Gasol

Perkins < Bynum

 

It might be close, but Rondo who's maybe in his prime right now, can beat up an old fisher anytime, also seeing the lost of ariza has really affected the LAL alot, not saying Artest isnt good, but they just have the different style of playing, Artest, who's the better defensive player, a 40+ minute guy, but for me, i think he's slow and quite Aging, compared to Ariza, good Defensively, Agressive 1on1, but not a go-to guy.

 

And the Celtics, they're even better than '08, that's all i can say.

[YugoRocketsFan]

Gasol > KG

Pierce > Artest

[kingfish]

Gasol > KG

Pierce > Artest

I agree Gasol > KG. I also agree that Pierce is a better player then Artest because of his scoring ability. But when matched up against each other Artest shuts him down so their production is pretty equal. But the difference is Pierce is the 1st/2nd option for the Celtics while Artest is pretty far down on the Lakers list.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Boston shuts down teams that rely heavily on the jumpshot. They are holding teams to .319 shooting from downtown.

 

Cleveland is a three-point shooting team, and so is Orlando. The Heat weren't contenders, so they were going to lose to Boston to begin with.

 

1) Los Angeles isn't a three-point shooting team. They get a ton of points in the paint using screen and rolls and simply dropping the ball down low and letting the bigs do work, something Cleveland and Orlando don't practice.

 

2) They have a perimeter player in Kobe that won't have to drive through Perkins and Garnett to get his points. It's Ray and Tony, or Kobe gets 30+ a game.

 

3) Instead of Vladimir Radmanovic defending Perkins and standing in the paint, it will be Andrew Bynum.

 

4) Instead of Luke Walton defending Paul Pierce, it will be Ron Artest.

 

This team is a much different squad than the 2008 Lakers. You can remember 2008 all you want, but the fact is, if Kobe shuts down Rondo, the Celtics' offense is busted. He can do it.

 

 

These Celtics have a lot of similarities with Pistons team that won the 2004 championship. I don't think what you said regarding shutting down teams that rely heavily on outside shooting is true. Like Lakers that couldn't get the ball in to Shaq, they were forced to shoot outside shots. The 2004 Lakers were not an outside shooting team either, but Pistons still shut them down regardless.

 

Shooting outside shots is actually what these Pistons and Celtics teams want you (if you're the opponents) to do, instead of something that they're defending well against. They would rather see Lakers shoot outside shots, than taking chances with Gasol in the post/ Shaq down low.

[Real Deal]

These Celtics have a lot of similarities with Pistons team that won the 2004 championship. I don't think what you said regarding shutting down teams that rely heavily on outside shooting is true. Like Lakers that couldn't get the ball in to Shaq, they were forced to shoot outside shots. The 2004 Lakers were not an outside shooting team either, but Pistons still shut them down regardless.

Ray Allen, and Tony Allen, are nowhere near the level Tayshaun Prince was back on defense. Not even close. Perkins is definitely no Ben Wallace, either. Those two kept Bryant out of the paint.

 

And no, the 2004 Lakers were not forced into shots on a regular basis, had they found it tough getting the ball into O'Neal. Just against Detroit, and that's mainly because outside of Kobe and Shaq, they had no production. Malone was injured and playing terribly, and Gary Payton was complete and utter garbage for us.

 

If Kobe is doubled, and we can't get the ball into Gasol (which won't happen, but we'll pretend it will), Odom and Bynum will crush Boston, or Artest will have a field day with wide-open shots, or Fisher will get his wide-open looks.

 

We're not talking about the 2004 Lakers.

 

Shooting outside shots is actually what these Pistons and Celtics teams want you (if you're the opponents) to do, instead of something that they're defending well against. They would rather see Lakers shoot outside shots, than taking chances with Gasol in the post/ Shaq down low.

That's not necessarily true. The Magic are a prime example of that. Did you see the game last night? Boston was protecting the paint as good as they could, but it was Jameer who was slashing to the rim and getting fouled, or dumping the ball off down low to Howard for a bucket. The Celtics allowed Orlando to launch a few threes (28, to be exact), and it ended up biting them in the neck at the end of the game. You actually think the Celtics want Orlando to shoot threes? They were 4th in the league, almost 38% shooting, which is what won them so many games in the regular season (and they shot almost 36% last night).

 

----------

 

Ultimate factor in last night's win, though? Making Rondo work defensively, and defending him very well. As I've been saying the entire time, Kobe will be assigned Rondo. That's a problem for Boston now...maybe not in 2008, because Rajon was not the force he is today, but the 2010 Celtics have determined that Rondo is now their engine. Lakers fans will also tell you that, while he's not a great offensive threat, Derek Fisher can put any guard in the league in foul trouble, just as Nelson did to Rajon last night.

 

With Pierce having to play more of a point-forward position last night, and needing a massive game just to keep up with Orlando...we have an answer for him as well, named Ron Artest, who almost dominated Kevin Durant in the first round.

 

I am looking forward to it.

[Multi-Billionaire]

Ray Allen, and Tony Allen, are nowhere near the level Tayshaun Prince was back on defense. Not even close. Perkins is definitely no Ben Wallace, either. Those two kept Bryant out of the paint.

 

And no, the 2004 Lakers were not forced into shots on a regular basis, had they found it tough getting the ball into O'Neal. Just against Detroit, and that's mainly because outside of Kobe and Shaq, they had no production. Malone was injured and playing terribly, and Gary Payton was complete and utter garbage for us.

 

If Kobe is doubled, and we can't get the ball into Gasol (which won't happen, but we'll pretend it will), Odom and Bynum will crush Boston, or Artest will have a field day with wide-open shots, or Fisher will get his wide-open looks.

 

We're not talking about the 2004 Lakers.

 

You're talking about individual defense. Sure, individually Tayshaun was a superior defender than Tony or Ray... but this is team defense. Their rotation is near picture perfect (until Game 4 vs Magic)... pretend you're a Magic/ Cav player, you can't have more than 1-2 dribbles without seeing another defender (double team/ help defense)... or if you're a star like LeBron/ VC, you'd be triple teamed in a hurry. And if you pass it, again, their team defense is so perfect they will cover each other... it's like you're never open.

 

I don't care if they're the Steve Nashes of the League... if you adopt this Boston Celtics defense, team defense is far superior than a lock-down one on one defense. The Celtics play it perfectly until Game 4 yesterday, but I see it as a slippage and they will be back to their form.

 

And how do you expect Bynum, who is ineffective against Robin Lopez and Amare, to "crush" Perkins (one of the best interior defenders in the L) and KG (another)? How are Fisher and Artest getting these "wide open looks" when Celtics have the best rotation defense in the L?

 

 

That's not necessarily true. The Magic are a prime example of that. Did you see the game last night? Boston was protecting the paint as good as they could, but it was Jameer who was slashing to the rim and getting fouled, or dumping the ball off down low to Howard for a bucket. The Celtics allowed Orlando to launch a few threes (28, to be exact), and it ended up biting them in the neck at the end of the game. You actually think the Celtics want Orlando to shoot threes? They were 4th in the league, almost 38% shooting, which is what won them so many games in the regular season (and they shot almost 36% last night).

 

I really think Celtics slipped defensively yesterday... but it was only one game. That was also because they thought they had it in the bag and thought Magic would throw in the towel. You didn't see the best of Celtics defense...

 

And I'm talking about their defense forcing your team to shoot outside shots. So unlike Nelson who successfully penetrated because I think the Celtics were not the same defensively in Game 4, I don't see them allowing Kobe to penetrate to the paint, just as the Pistons closed down the paint area, closed down the passing lanes to Shaq and forced Kobe, Fox, Payton to shoot.

 

Yeah, I do think the Celtics want Magic to shoot. But it doesn't translate to "letting them shoot wide open shots" lol. What I meant is preferring them to shoot (but still defend it) rather than deal with Dwight (32 pts in Gamr 4). So what if they're 4th in the L with 38% shooting... IF you (as the Boston Celtics) know you can defend outside shooting well? For the series, the Magic are only shooting 30.8% 3PT shooting. I think it's safe to say, if you're the Boston Celtics, and you know you can defend the 3s like that, you will want them to shoot (but not intentionally leave them wide open) rather than them going inside to Howard because once he got going, the whole team will get going.

 

 

Ultimate factor in last night's win, though? Making Rondo work defensively, and defending him very well. As I've been saying the entire time, Kobe will be assigned Rondo. That's a problem for Boston now...maybe not in 2008, because Rajon was not the force he is today, but the 2010 Celtics have determined that Rondo is now their engine. Lakers fans will also tell you that, while he's not a great offensive threat, Derek Fisher can put any guard in the league in foul trouble, just as Nelson did to Rajon last night.

 

With Pierce having to play more of a point-forward position last night, and needing a massive game just to keep up with Orlando...we have an answer for him as well, named Ron Artest, who almost dominated Kevin Durant in the first round.

 

I am looking forward to it.

 

Unfortunately for Fisher, Rondo is a first team All Defense player... so I don't see why he should work so much to "defend" Fisher. Their team defense will not allow Fish to shoot those wide open shots.

 

Rondo was in foul trouble so PP had to be a playmaker more often in that game. Not surprisingly they lost. But are you counting on a Rajon Rondo foul trouble? He is one of the craftiest players in the L and boundless energy, he will run their offense without no trouble. I think one of the videos Doc will show Rondo is the Thunder-Lakers series where Kobe switched to Westbrook and gave him trouble. Rondo is (right now) the smarter player than Westbrook... and he will find ways to attack Kobe/ Fisher in the opportune times. And the Celtics also have many playmakers Rondo, or even Ray and Tony Allen who occasionally bring the ball up.

 

I am also looking forward to it... I really wanna see this clash between Celtics defense and Lakers efficiency on offense.

[Real Deal]

I wasn't talking about individual defense, actually. I'm talking team defense. Detroit was just as good of a defensive team as Boston, probably better.

 

Regarding the Celtics letting Howard go off for 30+ points, it's not the first time he did it in the series, and Orlando lost that game. Boston would rather let Howard get his. They don't want Orlando shooting threes, and they don't want Nelson penetrating and kicking it out for threes (or oops to Howard). Smart basketball. Let the worst offensive player on the floor (Howard) get what he can, and focus on the point guard and the three-point shot.

 

Fisher doesn't have to attack Rondo to get him into foul trouble. He's a flopper. He'll find Rondo in the lanes, or he'll post him up at certain points in the game, and Rondo isn't as strong.

 

Tony Allen and Ray Allen aren't playmakers. One is a slashing scorer, one is a shooter. Neither care to make a play, and that showed last night.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^If you're talking about team defense why are you talking that individually Tay was defensively better than Ray/ Tony Allen? You're contradicting yourself. In a strong defensive system like in Boston, even if you're weak defensively as an individual player (like Ray), as a team, it's still great team defense. Sure you're going to be better off with better individual defenders, but it's not too far off. A double team by, say Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki, is still a double team. If those two were playing in Boston, they'd too be playing excellent team defense.

 

The ECF series is over now, but even if it went 100 more games, Boston would prefer Magic keep shooting threes (mind you what I mean by this is contested threes) than trying to defend Howard in the paint. They're 6-for-22 tonight... I don't care if a team shoots the lights out as a team, if you (as the Boston Celtics) can defend threes well like that, you obviously want them to keep shooting tough perimeter shots than them going inside to Howard and Howard developing offensive rhythm.

 

Again, if you think the Lakers (who are not a three pt team as you said yourself) will win by shooting threes against these Celtics... you're wrong. Even if it turned out to be the Suns (who are a much better three pt shooting team), they'd rather shut down the passing lanes to Stoudemire and let them take tough 3s.

 

 

I'm still sticking to my opeh-ni-on... Celtics in 5

 

Or Celtics over Suns in 6... I give the Suns one more game here because I think they have the ability to throw off the Celtics defensively with their pace. As we witness in Game 4 and 5, Celtics can have a lull defensively... and it can be dangerous when playing the Suns.

Edited May 29, 2010 by Snake

[Real Deal]

^If you're talking about team defense why are you talking that individually Tay was defensively better than Ray/ Tony Allen? You're contradicting yourself. In a strong defensive system like in Boston, even if you're weak defensively as an individual player (like Ray), as a team, it's still great team defense. Sure you're going to be better off with better individual defenders, but it's not too far off. A double team by, say Steve Nash and Dirk Nowitzki, is still a double team. If those two were playing in Boston, they'd too be playing excellent team defense.

Team defense is most effective with good defensive players. Sure, I'm going to talk about them individually, in the same way you would talk about Dwight Howard and LeBron James, changing their team's overall defense.

 

And no, a double by Nash and Nowitzki isn't better than being held by someone like Prince. A double leaves someone open.

 

The ECF series is over now, but even if it went 100 more games, Boston would prefer Magic keep shooting threes (mind you what I mean by this is contested threes) than trying to defend Howard in the paint. They're 6-for-22 tonight... I don't care if a team shoots the lights out as a team, if you (as the Boston Celtics) can defend threes well like that, you obviously want them to keep shooting tough perimeter shots than them going inside to Howard and Howard developing offensive rhythm.

It was stated two or three times at the half and at the end of the game: Boston ran Orlando off the three-point line. They didn't want the Magic catching fire. With Perkins in the game, they don't care what Howard does in the paint. He has very limited offensive skills, so Howard dropping 40-50 points on them is highly unlikely, as long as they are forcing hooks and long jumpers. They have no problem winning when Howard is scoring 25-30 points...but when Orlando catches fire from beyond the arc, Boston blows leads (as you saw in those first two games, actually, and in Game 5). But okay.

 

Again, if you think the Lakers (who are not a three pt team as you said yourself) will win by shooting threes against these Celtics... you're wrong. Even if it turned out to be the Suns (who are a much better three pt shooting team), they'd rather shut down the passing lanes to Stoudemire and let them take tough 3s.

Never said the Lakers will shoot threes against Boston and win by doing so.

 

And no, the Celtics would not let Phoenix shoot threes over the Nash-Amare pick and roll. They would rather defend the PNR straight up, and cover shooters, because they have excellent interior defense. You really think Rivers would allow Phoenix the three before the Nash-Amare pick and roll? Phoenix racked up 9-12 points in 80 seconds against the Lakers the other night, and it was their threes that gave their bench 50+ points en route to beating LA in Game 4.