Real Deal

Site was just moved to a new semi-dedicated server, so you should experience better performance overall. Some of you were probably booted for a while (everyone should've been), so I'm sorry for that...but we weren't down for that long, and all posts should have been restored.

Really quick... But he should've been. He averaged 27 a game and shot 52% from the floor in one of those seasons (averaged 25 the previous season with Portland as well), and yet he didn't make the ASG? That's a big reason why I'm not looking at achievements like that. Look at the defensive-minded players that have been robbed of a Defensive 1st or 2nd team over the years. Why do Shaq and Kobe have a combined two MVP's? It's the same thing. And, sure, the Blazers were better with Cliff...because they had Drexler, Williams, Kersey, Porter, and a well-rounded team that could go all the way to the Finals.

I love the contribution, but you're bouncing around a lot. Just go back and re-read your post without the things you quoted. "I know he played just two years, but..." "He only played two years for them, so..." "I know you want players at their true positions, but..." "He didn't play PF most of his stay, so..." The worst part about doing these is trying to stick to a criteria. I've bent it a bit, but not to the point where I'm recklessly adding players in wrong positions, never basing it on tenure, just to fit the top five players in that team's history. A great example of why this is such a problem is, last night, I asked my brother (who loves Iverson more than I do Kobe) who the greatest PG in Sixers history was. He sat and thought about it, and then said Mo Cheeks. He didn't consider Iverson. I want people to look at the roster and identify these players as the greatest at that position, and for that franchise. I'm not putting together the five greatest overall, or a team of players that would do well on the court together. If I asked someone who the greatest PF in Laker history was, and they told me Kareem, I'd slap the shit out of them, and I think you would too. ---------- With that said, I'll make some changes to the new ones. ??? Regardless of that, I'll probably add Rodman. I can't do that to Allen. The difference between Ray and DJ was that Ray Allen was the primary scoring option, one of the greatest shooters of all-time (to combat your argument about DJ's defense) and he actually led the team almost every season he was with them. The Finals MVP can't sway my decision. Tony Parker won a Finals MVP when Duncan was leading the team. If they both played the same position, there'd be no way on Earth I'd stick Parker over Duncan. Ray Allen was Seattle, at one point. Dennis Johnson wasn't. That 1979 team was Gus' team. He took the shots and ran the offense, and it was Gus that basically turned into a superstar during the playoffs, averaged almost 27 a game and shot a sky-high FG percentage. Donaldson never crossed my mind, but that makes more sense. Hill is out...but he's no doubt the best SF in Orlando's history if he stayed healthy for at least 2-3 more seasons (didn't look at his games played, thought he had a couple more seasons under his belt over there). I can't comment on the rest because I need to leave, but I read all of it. I'm sure I'll change a few things. It's difficult running through complete franchise histories, 1950's - present, especially when I'm diving into an era where these guys really had it easier. When I'm down there, I don't get an accurate position for these players, so I have to read up on the rosters and the minutes played (they don't tell me games started), and go through 5-10 seasons for some of these guys. Back in late 2009, I created a topic for each team, asking us to help with these...and there were very few replies altogether, so I had no choice but to assume this was going to be all about me, then I'd get the feedback later.

Suns - http://www.otrbasketball.com/suns/roster.php Thunder - http://www.otrbasketball.com/thunder/roster.php Timberwolves - http://www.otrbasketball.com/timberwolves/roster.php Warriors - http://www.otrbasketball.com/warriors/roster.php Wizards - http://www.otrbasketball.com/wizards/roster.php Use the top navigation to see the rest of the teams (no need to post them again). Time to work on the schedules.

Sheed is now listed as the Blazers' all-time PF. I also added Mutombo instead of Willis (to Atlanta), Rodman to Chicago, moved Drexler to the SG position (no idea why I had him anywhere else) and inserted Vandeweghe into Portland's five (well-deserved, IMO). Also, Derek Harper replaced Kidd in Dallas. I do listen to all of your suggestions, lol...even if it sounds like I don't. Ah... Pacers - http://www.otrbasketball.com/pacers/roster.php Pistons - http://www.otrbasketball.com/pistons/roster.php Raptors - http://www.otrbasketball.com/raptors/roster.php Rockets - http://www.otrbasketball.com/rockets/roster.php Sixers - http://www.otrbasketball.com/sixers/roster.php Spurs - http://www.otrbasketball.com/spurs/roster.php Almost done. :o

He's one of those offensive players that you have to shrug your shoulders at. There's too much to defend when you're playing him. He can get to the line, hit 25-foot threes, pull up off the dribble, and even if he's not strong enough to back you deep into the post, he can take post position and shoot over you within seconds. I know he dropped 47 last season, can't remember if it was on the Nuggets or Wolves (he went off on both...it was the game he also pulled down 18 boards). He also had a big game against the Hornets a few seasons ago, but I don't think he's had over 47.

I saw some nice tan-colored shoes last week over at Hibbett Sports, but didn't look too much into them because I'm always buying basketball kicks. I'll be going back in there tomorrow, so if they are still there, I'll let you know what they were.

I really have nothing to say, other than I'm numb to it all. It's pretty sad that the fans (not the players or owners) are the ones losing the most out of the deal.

Yep. Doesn't really matter...I can't sit here and say he wouldn't have hit that rookie wall, and I can't say whether or not he would've averaged another 20/5/5. He didn't show me enough last season, regardless of the reason. That's like Andrew Bynum and Greg Oden. When both are healthy, they are two of the best centers in the NBA...but I can't sit here and say Drew would average 20/10 in a full season because he's only played one full season in his career. People probably think that Yao would be better than Dwight right now, also...but he's not, and part of that is due to him being injured (let alone him retiring).

Wow, that font size isn't as small as I initially thought...lol.

Haha, pleeeeeease. Second-most skilled player of all-time, but I'll stop there. Should have 10 MVP's.

Randy Moss. It would've been scary if he had Tom Brady most of his career...as in, "surpassing Jerry Rice by a mile" scary.

It's really unfortunate, because I watched KJ pick apart a lot of very good defensive players. He tore Payton up one night, probably after Barkley left (can't remember), and I don't recall GP winning those battles the majority of the time, either. Seemed to be quite even throughout the 90's, which is a big statement for Johnson's play because Payton was a monster on D. He also dropped 44 on Alvin Robertson, which is one of the first games I had seen KJ play in. I know Nash hits daggers and runs his offense better than most everyone in the league, but I just feel like Johnson did more on the court. Personal achievements suck sometimes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nashst01.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/johnske02.html Looking at the stats, you can make the argument, right? Team success? Well, KJ was the PG of the Suns' Finals team. I grew up watching Barkley and KJ, and Johnson was a very good defensive player, something that Nash isn't. Is it the two MVP awards that separate Nash from Johnson, or are we just forgetting how good KJ was?

Yeah, I'm going to stick McGrady at the three. I do remember Wesley and Sura starting together, which pushes McGrady up. And Rudy Tomjanovich was a PF, so that's my mistake. Had to go back and look at the starting fives. For the most part, he was playing PF. C - Hakeem PF - Tomjanovich SF - McGrady SG - Drexler PG - Murphy I really want to put Malone or Hayes in there, but I can't stick them over Hakeem, and both rarely played PF for Houston.

http://espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/story/_/id/6823929/randy-moss-retire-13-seasons-153-touchdowns Sad day, for real. My all-time favorite NFL player.

Help. Hakeem, Hayes and Malone were all centers in Houston. Hayes played every season in Houston at the center position (thought he was a four in HOU). Same with Malone, and obviously Hakeem. It's a given that Hakeem is my starting center. I know what Malone did, but Hakeem was there longer, had FAR better defense, and wasn't selfish. C - Hakeem Olajuwon Now for the rest... PF - Otis Thorpe? Hard to put Sampson here, if he only really played three full seasons in Houston. SF - Rudy Tomjanovich SG - Tracy McGrady? Clyde Drexler? PG - Calvin Murphy I'd like to start Dream, Malone and Hayes altogether, but I just want them in their natural positions for the particular teams they played for.

This is so cool...my brother's friend took these two pictures... http://i54.tinypic.com/1zclv0h.jpg http://i52.tinypic.com/2jeakj.jpg I guess they both walk up to the back door every day or so, looking for attention and food, and sometimes, they come together. Crazy.

That could be something we can start up after the debate tourney we're planning (getting ready to start that up in this first week of August).

You have to put Evans in the same boat as Love, then. When was the last time the Kings were good? I could argue that Evans was padding his stats his rookie season, and his second season didn't leave much for me to draw a conclusion stating that he's better than Love.

I drew this for my girlfriend's niece Friday night...surprisingly, it's my first since I lost my left eye almost four years ago (wow, seems like forever ago). Had to scale it from a much smaller picture, so it's not perfect, by any means. What do you guys think? http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/188198_10150239503041653_502396652_7874891_6049092_n.jpg And yeah, the curl in her hair was really weird, but I decided to roll with it (even how it looked odd to me) just because that's how it was in the picture. I don't want to break any Disney rules, lol. Realized I forgot the strap on her other arm, but maybe she's just casual at the time. One strap kind of night. Disney casual.

Not to put a curse on Batum (being a Blazer), but I'll go ahead and mention in this topic how it's going to be interesting to see which player suffers an injury first. With more and more signing (and there will be more than just this), I guess I'm more curious how the fans will react. I mean, I see Kobe considering Turkey, and many of us Laker fans are cool with it...but what if? Suddenly, this seems to be a bad idea. If I was Portland, I'd be worried to death, for the simple fact that it seems inevitable with this team.

OH YEAH, TRENT EDWARDS TO THE RAIDERS. This is definitely breaking news. Back-breaking news. How many games has Edwards played in since he was drafted? One? I don't even think the dude has two full seasons under his belt, and he came into the league in 2006 or 2007. WTFFFF.

FYI... I looked it up earlier, closed it because I didn't think I needed it anymore...but the 33+ year old Malone averaged around 24 PPG and 8-9 RPG (may have been 8.5 RPG, can't remember) against the Kobe/Shaq Lakers when O'Neal was in the lineup. Not bad at all. Prime Malone would've been more difficult to defend, probably putting up at least 27-29 PPG and 10-12 RPG, but I digress.