Poe

Thank you, though I was hoping you would be more specific. FYI, I'm not attempting to justify the ratings of Brown and House. I'm looking to see people's perceived flaws with it, and then determine whether or not the ratings are accurate enough overall. In general, you cannot expect any advanced statistic to perfectly reflect a player's ability in any facet of basketball, though you can find ways to break it down to make it as accurate as possible, and it appears to me so far that the results have been extremely accurate, with only a few odd cases like Steve Novak and Leon Powe, though I accept the possibility that they both are much better scorers than the general public (and myself) initially thought. But to further determine it's accuracy, I want more than just "this guy can be a 15-20 ppg scorer, and that guy is only a good bench player". I need a real scouting report on several players and compare them side-by-side, and truly understand why the results showed Brown > Odom and Bynum from an objective, "coaching"-like standpoint, and less based off who has the higher FG% or 3PT%.

Indiana Pacers: 37 - 45 Danny Granger - 78.589 Tyler Hansbrough - 75.511 Dahntay Jones - 74.121 Roy Hibbert - 72.708 Darren Collison - 71.128 A.J. Price - 70.668 Mike Dunleavy - 69.258 Paul George - 66.498 Brandon Rush - 64.161 Josh McRoberts - 60.527 T.J. Ford - 59.364 James Posey - 58.123 Jeff Foster - 38.640 Less than 41 Played Games: Solomon Jones - 53.901 (39 games) Lance Stephenson - 65.108 (12 games)

Philadelphia 76ers: 41 - 41 Louis Williams - 79.937 Thaddeus Young - 75.825 Marresse Speights - 74.650 Elton Brand - 72.957 Jrue Holiday - 69.193 Jodie Meeks - 68.741 Andre Iguodala - 68.557 Andres Nocioni - 65.703 Spencer Hawes - 65.612 Evan Turner - 62.929 Less than 41 Played Games: Tony Battie - 56.010 (38 games) Jason Kapono - 39.734 (24 games) Darius Songaila - 47.753 (10 games) Antonio Daniels - 30.743 (4 games) Craig Brackins - 66.368 (3 games)

Memphis Grizzlies: 46 - 36 Zach Randolph - 78.001 Rudy Gay - 75.282 Darrell Arthur - 73.139 O.J. Mayo - 72.140 Tony Allen - 71.211 Mike Conley - 68.072 Sam Young - 66.748 Marc Gasol - 65.786 Greivis Vasquez - 57.664 Less than 41 Played Games: Hamed Haddadi - 72.101 (31 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Leon Powe - 80.887 (TOT - 75.474) Rodney Carney - 75.387 (TOT - 67.199) Shane Battier - 67.482 (TOT - 51.848) Ishmael Smith - 56.290 (TOT - 50.827) Jason Williams - 39.010 (TOT - 40.788) --- Left: Marcus Thornton - 76.778 (TOT - 77.136) Acie Law - 39.975 (TOT - 57.965) DeMarre Carroll - 56.667 (TOT - 47.241) Hasheem Thabeet - 14.916 (TOT - 14.454)

EASTERN CONFERENCE FINALS: Chicago Bulls vs Miami Heat WESTERN CONFERENCE FINALS: Dallas Mavericks vs Oklahoma City Thunder NBA FINALS: Miami Heat vs Oklahoma City Thunder NBA CHAMPION: Miami Heat

New Orleans Hornets: 46 - 36 David West - 78.614 Marco Belinelli - 73.435 Chris Paul - 73.238 Willie Green - 72.196 Trevor Ariza - 64.636 Emeka Okafor - 63.451 Jason Smith - 62.558 Quincy Pondexter - 57.233 Aaron Gray - 50.717 Didier Ilunga-Mbenga - 33.736 Less than 41 Played Games: Patrick Ewing Jr. - 57.914 (7 games) Pops Mensah-Bonsu - –45.191 (7 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Jarrett Jack - 73.096 (TOT - 73.996) Carl Landry - 75.124 (TOT - 72.540) David Andersen - 67.482 (TOT - 67.108) --- Left: Marcus Thornton - 76.778 (TOT - 77.136) Peja Stojakovic - 77.434 (TOT - 75.117) Jerryd Bayless - 67.621 (TOT - 71.147) Sasha Pavlovic - 23.515 (TOT - 45.327)

No faith in Melo/Amar'e/Billups?

Has nobody made a thread on this? Well, here are mine, anyway: WEST First Round: (1) Spurs > (8) Grizzlies (4) Thunder > (5) Nuggets (3) Mavs > (6) Blazers (2) Lakers > (7) Hornets EAST First Round: (1) Bulls > (8) Pacers (4) Magic > (5) Hawks (3) Celtics < (6) Knicks (2) Heat > (7) Sixers WEST Second Round: (1) Spurs < (4) Thunder (2) Lakers < (3) Mavericks EAST Second Round: (1) Bulls > (4) Magic (2) Heat > (6) Knicks Conference Finals: East: (1) Bulls < (2) Heat West: (3) Mavericks < (4) Thunder NBA Finals: 58W Heat > 55W Thunder

Portland Trail Blazers: 48 - 34 LaMarcus Aldridge - 79.009 Wesley Matthews - 74.954 Brandon Roy - 74.059 Patrick Mills - 73.835 Nicolas Batum - 70.469 Andre Miller - 69.007 Rudy Fernandez - 68.034 Dante Cunningham - 56.429 Marcus Camby - 38.718 Less than 41 Played Games: Armon Johnson - 70.120 (38 games) Sean Marks - 46.270 (29 games) Luke Babbit - 65.484 (24 games) Sean Marks - 46.270 (5 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Gerald Wallace - 72.570 (TOT - 71.229) Earl Barron - 54.304 (TOT - 60.622) Jarron Collins - 00.269 (TOT - 36.430) --- Left: Chris Johnson - 36.430 (TOT - 47.966) Joel Przybilla - –7.278 (TOT - –16.646)

New York Knicks: 42 - 40 Amar'e Stoudemire - 81.745 Toney Douglas - 71.832 Bill Walker - 66.838 Shawne Williams - 64.038 Landry Fields - 59.328 Ronny Turiaf - 44.040 Less than 41 Played Games: Roger Mason - 50.576 (26 games) Andy Rautins - 65.433 (5 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Carmelo Anthony - 83.128 (TOT - 82.826) Chauncey Billups - 77.096 (TOT - 75.383) Derrick Brown - 64.315 (TOT - 61.102) Sheldon Williams - 63.308 (TOT - 57.137) Renaldo Balkman - 35.484 (TOT - 53.839) Anthony Carter - 52.201 (TOT - 47.340) Jared Jeffries - –10.249 (TOT - 12.218) --- Left: Anthony Randolph - 62.682 (TOT - 75.196) Danilo Gallinari - 73.530 (TOT - 73.438) Wilson Chandler - 74.558 (TOT - 73.424) Raymond Felton - 71.610 (TOT - 70.341) Timofey Mozgov - 57.062 (TOT - 59.364)

House has been rated 4th on the Heat for a while now. I had questioned it myself until seeing him get a higher role in the offense against the Raptors (when the big three were resting). He went off for 35 points. I think what allowed House to receive such a high rating is his ability to maneuver off screens, and be able to get off shots without much breathing room with his lightening-quick release, AND make them at a good enough percentage even when heavily contested. See, this is the way I want you to observe the ratings of these players. Objectively look at their abilities and inabilities on offense. Who is good at what, or SO good at something that it outweighs the bad, etc. Like for example, what specifically in Brown's offensive skillset makes him a worse overall scorer compared to Odom and Bynum? This is what the rating should somehow conclude. The best overall scorer. Not necessarily the player with the highest volume or the best percentages.

Atlanta Hawks: 44 - 38 Joe Johnson - 77.778 Josh Smith - 75.542 Jamal Crawford - 75.016 Al Horford - 73.360 Jeff Teague - 68.806 Marvin Williams - 68.446 Josh Powell - 66.206 Zaza Pachulia - 56.868 Damien Wilkins - 56.184 Jason Collins - 25.160 Less than 41 Played Games: Etan Thomas - 69.296 (13 games) Pape Sy - 65.785 (3 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Kirk Hinrich - 60.648 (TOT - 63.496) Hilton Armstrong - 43.280 (TOT - 33.736) --- Left: Jordan Crawford - 74.398 (TOT - 75.267) Maurice Evens - 56.051 (TOT - 61.108) Mike Bibby - 62.478 (TOT - 60.384)

Thanks for the observation. If you notice anything else, feel free to post about it. There is a reason I'm posting this here. What I would like to know the most out of the people here though - not based off of statistics but based off of watching and observing the players overall scoring abilities - would you say that the order is generally correct? Are there any players that look like they are rated too high/low? (like Steve Novak, for an extreme example)

Orlando Magic: 52 - 30 Dwight Howard - 79.428 Ryan Anderson - 75.784 Brandon Bass - 72.160 Jameer Nelson - 71.329 J.J. Redick - 69.918 Quentin Richardson - 56.736 Chris Duhon - 30.298 Less than 41 Played Games: Malik Allen - 21.948 (18 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Jason Richardson - 70.658 (TOT - 74.726) Gilbert Arenas - 69.155 (TOT - 71.704) Earl Clark - 66.195 (TOT - 66.565) Hedo Turkoglu - 63.598 (TOT - 64.596) --- Left: Vince Carter - 76.281 (TOT - 76.212) Marcin Gortat - 51.390 (TOT - 69.738) Mickael Pietrus - 61.177 (TOT - 67.930) Rashard Lewis - 68.481 (TOT - 66.629) Jason Williams - 42.256 (TOT - 40.790)

Denver Nuggets: 50 - 32 J.R. Smith - 75.054 Nene Hilario - 73.897 Al Harrington - 73.124 Ty Lawson - 71.225 Gary Forbes - 69.953 Aaron Afflalo - 67.563 Chris Andersen - 63.798 Kenyon Martin - 63.220 Less than 41 Played Games: Melvin Ely - 30.700 (30 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Danilo Gallinari - 73.551 (TOT - 73.438) Wilson Chandler - 70.068 (TOT - 73.424) Raymond Felton - 65.487 (TOT - 70.341) Kosta Koufos - 75.227 (TOT - 66.233) Timofey Mozgov - 70.848 (TOT - 59.364) --- Left: Carmelo Anthony - 82.627 (TOT - 82.826) Chauncey Billups - 74.505 (TOT - 75.383) Sheldon Williams - 55.922 (TOT - 57.137) Renaldo Balkman - 63.670 (TOT - 53.839) Anthony Carter - 40.419 (TOT - 47.340)

Oklahoma City Thunder: 57 - 25 Kevin Durant - 82.908 Russell Westbrook - 80.319 James Harden - 74.455 Daequan Cook - 73.193 Serge Ibaka - 67.051 Erick Maynor - 58.567 Nick Collison - 40.988 Thabo Sefolosha - 37.596 Less than 41 Played Games: Royal Ivey - 54.187 (25 games) Cole Aldrich - 1.558 (18 games) Byron Mullins - 64.782 (13 games) Morris Peterson - 39.394 (4 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Nazr Mohammed - 67.658 (TOT - 71.568) Nate Robinson - 75.227 (TOT - 70.946) Kendrick Perkins - 38.998 (TOT - 47.410) --- Left: Jeff Green - 70.722 (TOT - 71.356) Nenad Krstic - 66.088 (TOT - 67.845) D.J. White - 60.880 (TOT - 71.044)

You can't rate a player solely based on the quality of their team. Because most people actually do for some reason, Derrick Rose becomes very overrated, and Kevin Martin becomes severely underrated. Put Rose in Martin's place, and the Rockets wouldn't be a .500 team. Put Martin in Rose's place, and trade Bogans for a strong, defensive-minded PG, and the Bulls may have won 65 games.

Dallas Mavericks: 57 - 25 Dirk Nowitzki - 82.757 Jason Terry - 76.495 Jose Barea - 73.873 Shawn Marion - 73.193 Tyson Chandler - 67.096 Ian Mahinmi - 65.379 DeShawn Stevensen - 64.473 Brendan Haywood - 50.567 Jason Kidd - 50.079 Brian Cardinal - 49.157 Less than 41 Played Games: Caron Butler - 76.851 (29 games) Rodrigue Beaubois - 75.257 (28 games) Dominique Jones - 65.952 (18 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Peja Stojakovic - 75.117 (TOT - 73.655) Corey Brewer - 74.109 (TOT - 65.778) --- Left: Steve Novak - 85.000 (TOT - 79.496) Alexis Ajinca - 72.375 (TOT - 71.415) Sasha Pavlovic - 52.958 (TOT - 45.327)

Los Angeles Lakers: 57 - 25 Kobe Bryant - 83.823 Pau Gasol - 76.396 Shannon Brown - 73.937 Lamar Odom - 72.593 Andrew Bynum - 69.804 Derrick Caracter - 66.933 Matt Barnes - 64.193 Ron Artest - 59.428 Derek Fisher - 51.723 Luke Walton - 44.379 Steve Blake - 39.823 Less than 41 Played Games: Deven Ebanks - 77.616 (20 games) Theo Ratliff - –65.282 (10 games)* Traded Players: --- Acquired: Trey Johnson - 83.309 (TOT - 67.629) Joe Smith - 32.249 (TOT - 45.489) --- Left: Sasha Vujacic - 69.901 (TOT - 70.839) *Yep, that's NEGATIVE 65.282.

Maybe you'll find his career SAR of 72.329 to be more accurate (which is STILL pretty high, though). Also, I'm figuring 68-76 is about starter caliber, while 77-79 is all-star. 80+ is superstar level. So according to this, Steve Novak is a starter caliber scorer. His ability to rebound and defend must be pretty damn poor for him to still only get garbage time.

San Antonio Spurs: 61 - 21 Manu Ginobili - 78.762 Tony Parker - 77.284 Tim Duncan - 74.780 DeJuan Blair - 74.286 George Hill - 70.634 Gary Neal - 68.967 Tiago Splitter - 68.136 Richard Jefferson - 66.882 Matt Bonner - 66.156 Antonio McDyess - 59.953 Chris Quinn - 59.927 Less than 41 Played Games: James Anderson - 63.501 (26 games) Danny Green - 72.714 (8 games) Ime Udoka - 19.018 (20 games) Bobby Simmons - -16.279 (2 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Steve Novak - 78.793 (TOT - 79.496)* --- Left: Garrett Temple - 38.909 (TOT - 59.209) Alonzo Gee - 30.237 (TOT - 57.760) Othyus Jeffers - 62.296 (TOT - 56.107) Larry Owens - 63.478 (TOT - 55.205) *Novak played in only 30 games this year, with only 215 total minutes played. However, the resulting number is still very impressive. According to this, a lot more plays should be run for him in the offense.

Words can't harm unless you let them.

Boston Celtics: 56 - 26 Paul Pierce - 78.592 Kevin Garnett - 75.751 Ray Allen - 75.196 Glen Davis - 72.097 Von Wafer - 66.050 Marquis Daniels - 60.177 Rajon Rondo - 59.620 Less than 41 Played Games: Shaquille O'Neal - 73.057 (37 games) Avery Bradley - 69.739 (30 games) Jermaine O'Neal - 61.332 (24 games) Delonte West - 60.293 (24 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Jeff Green - 72.733 (TOT - 71.356) Nenad Krstic - 70.710 (TOT - 67.845) Carlos Arroyo - 43.125 (TOT - 54.194) Troy Murphy - 53.944 (TOT - 53.120) Chris Johnson - 26.266 (TOT - 47.966) Sasha Pavlovic - 42.899 (TOT - 45.327) --- Left: Nate Robinson - 70.829 (TOT - 70.946) Luke Harangody - 59.929 (TOT - 63.160) Semih Erden - 56.047 (TOT - 53.255) Kendrick Perkins - 55.975 (TOT - 47.410)

Miami Heat: 58 - 24 Dwyane Wade - 82.598 LeBron James - 82.460 Chris Bosh - 77.336 Eddie House - 69.079 James Jones - 64.239 Zydrunas Ilgauskas - 62.385 Mario Chalmers - 57.131 Mike Miller - 56.052 Juwan Howard - 50.353 Erick Dampier - 19.704 Joel Anthony - –21.304 Less than 41 Played Games: Jamaal Magloire - 45.093 (18 games) Udonis Haslem - 60.665 (13 games) Jerry Stackhouse - 56.044 (7 games) Dexter Pittman - 53.647 (2 games) Traded Players: --- Acquired: Mike Bibby - 54.411 (TOT - 60.384) --- Left: Carlos Arroyo - 56.455 (TOT - 54.194)

Scoring. Not overall game. You can use PER for that, though it's quite flawed (for example, it doesn't take into account the ability to play on-ball defense, so Bruce Bowen winds up getting robbed and gets a PER of half the average player).