Built Ford Tough

I'm actually curious to see how DeRozan plays tonight (well read as I won't be watching the game). He is playing in his hometown for the second time in his career and is also playing against his idol, Kobe Bryant, for the 2nd time in his career. The first time he played in LA he was a complete non factor against the Clippers when he scored 2 points, had 1 assist and shot 1-4 in 11 minutes. The first time he played against Kobe he got torched to begin the game and was clearly forcing things offensively, although he did settle down in the 2nd half a bit. He finished the game with 10 points, 6 rebounds and shot 4-12 in 24 minutes. He has been playing really poorly over the last couple of weeks with averages of 5.7 ppg / 2.8 rpg / 1.1 apg on 29.5 FG% and there has been rumors floating around that he might be moved to the bench. Hopefully a trip back home and playing against his idol will light a spark under him.

I've really liked Gordon's game since I first watched him last season with the Clippers and for some reason I seem to have watched a decent amount of Clipper games this season (not sure why lol) and I've been somewhat disapointed in his play this season. Don't get me wrong he isn't playing poorly by any stretch of the imagination as he is averaging 17.2 ppg on 46% shooting while only taking 13 shots a game. What I am somewhat disapointed in though is his lack of improvement in other areas. His assist numbers are the exact same as he had last season (2.8), his free throw shooting is down by nearly 11% from last season, his USG% is up (which is concerning considering his lack of increased numbers) and his offensive rating is down from last year as well. His play this season has been worse than his play after the All-Star break last season where he put up 19/3/3 on 47.5%. On the bright side, he is still playing solid two way basketball and isn't taking possessions off on the defensive end, which is nice to see from a player that is capable of putting up 20 ppg, and somebody as young as Gordon. Like I said above, he hasn't played poorly by any stretch of the imagination, but is anybody else somewhat disapointed by Gordon's play this season? Or did I have unrealistic expectations of him becoming more than just a scorer?

http://tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=313062 I think that Armstrong pretty much hit the nail on the head, like he usually does during his articles/blogs and when he is doing commentary. I know that the Raptors had a very easy schedule during the weeks leading up to the All-Star break and they have hit a hard part in their schedule once again in the days after the All-Star break, but there is no excuse for the lack of effort in some of the games that they have played. I don't care that they lose to upper echelon teams like Cleveland or OKC, but it is annoying to see the Raptors play Cleveland tight because of great offensive execution, play hard defense and make the Cavs work for their baskets (even though they put up 120 something points) and play with passion, only to see them play like they don't give a damn the next couple of nights against OKC and Houston. They need to pick it up or else there is a very good chance that the Raptors will be watching the playoffs from home once again.

http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/2010/03/of-going-home-again-irksome-officiating-items-and-so-long-skip.html Since the Raptors drafted DeRozan I have been a huge supporter of having him start every game and let him grow that way. Even when he struggled early in the season and some people were saying that he should be sent to the bench, I said that it was in the best interest of the team to continue having DeRozan start at the 2. However, I think that it is about time to make a change. DeRozan has played very poorly over the last month or so and seems to have hit the rookie wall. As a result of his struggles he is forcing his offense and trying to do too much rather than let the game come to him, which he was doing a great job of earlier in the season. With the Raptors entering into a tough portion of their schedule and seeing their lead for the 5th seed evaporate, I think it is time that the Raptors play the lineup that will give them the best chance of winning ball games extended minutes, and I don't think that DeRozan is one of those players. Now I am not saying to bench him and not play him at all, but I think it could be in the best interest of the team if they were to just bring him off of the bench for 15 minutes a game and start somebody like Sonny Weems or Antoine Wright, both of which give the Raptors a better shot at winning games. Thoughts?

I'll be going to a hockey game tomorrow night (first game of the playoffs) so I won't be watching this game, which is probably a good thing because I am sure that the Raptors are going to put up a pitiful effort and get blown out tomorrow night. Getting blown out wouldn't bother me because it is the Lakers, but I can't stand watching this team when they are playing like they don't give a damn, which is usually the kind of effort the Raptors have when they are playing good teams on the road. As long as the Raptors manage to take care of business against the Kings and Warriors on this 4 game road trip I'll be happy. The Raptors beating up on the bottom feeders in the East (primarily at home as well) really gave me an inflated opinion of them and lately they have started to play more like the team that they actually are, which is an average, .500 caliber team. Jack has been playing really well lately so hopefully they exploit this mismatch against Fisher. They did a great job of doing that in the 2nd half of the first game which was the turning point of the game and the reason the Raptors won in my opinion. They need to exploit that matchup every single time down the floor. Hopefully Kobe doesn't come out and embarass the Raptors after losing a tough game to the Magic yesterday. Watch him take out his frusturation on his teams recent struggles, Barnes antics, etc... on the Raptors and explode for 50 on poor DeRozan/Wright/Weems.

It isn't really a fair comparision if you ask me. Collison played all 4 years at UCLA (I think at least) while Holiday only played the 1 year at UCLA. Collison is 22 years old while Holiday is 19 years old and currently the youngest player in the NBA. Collison was expected to be able to step right into the NBA and be able to contribute right away while Holiday was considered to be more of a prospect and not nearly as NBA-ready. Collison has also benefited from playing behind Chris Paul (not to mention having Paul miss a significant portion of time this season) and playing in a very point guard oriented offense while Holiday is/was playing behind Louis Williams and playing in an offense that isn't nearly as point guard oriented with Iguodala on the team. Collison plays nearly 25 minutes a game, takes 9 shots a game and has a USG% of 23.7. Holliday plays only 20 minutes a game, takes 6 shots a game and has a USG% of 18.1. To be fair, Holliday is actually putting up some pretty solid numbers in the 12 games that he has played above 28 minutes. He is averaging 12.3 ppg / 5 apg / 3.1 rpg on 43.4 FG%. With all of this said though, as of right now this comparision isn't even close. Collison is undoubtedly the superior player as of right now. I liked Collison coming out of UCLA and thought that he would make for a very good backup, but I definitely didn't expect him to play the way that he has this season. He is showing that he can be a real solid starter in the NBA.

I didn't watch the game as I forgot to set my alarm in time to wake up for it so I can't comment on specifics of the game but from watching the majority of the Raptor games this season you hit the nail on the head with the Raptors getting ran out of the building with a small athletic lineup. The Raptors can't handle athletic teams when they go small. It is the reason why the Hawks dominated them two times, it is the reason why they got destroyed by the Thunder and it is the reason why the Sixers have managed to play them tough. All of these teams run a lineup with only one true big man and it creates matchup problems for the Raptors. They've struggled all season long against athletic teams who like to get out and run. Normally I wouldn't care about a loss simply because I don't care where the Raptors finish in the standings considering the fact that they are going to be lucky to win 1 game against any of the top 4 teams in the East, but this loss concerns me. The Raptors are now only 2 games away from not even being in the playoffs, are 4-6 in their last 10 and leave to go on a West Coast road trip against the Lakers, Kings, Warriors and Blazers. Then they come back and play the Hawks and Thunder. Realistically, the Raptors would be lucky to go better than .500 on this next stretch of 6 games. They really needed this win heading into this tough part of their schedule, but they blew it. I wouldn't be surprised one bit to see the Raptors out of a playoff spot by the time they play the Nets on the 20th. On the bright side, at least they would get a draft pick this year lol.

I don't usually post in threads like this because I don't really care about post counts all that much, but since I have hit 1,000 I figured that I would make a post saying that this is the 3rd message board that I have ever hit the 1,000 post plateau.

Beasley also took 12 shots a game during his rookie season which is more than any of those players that you listed by a fairly considerable amount. Bosh took 9.5, Garnett took 9, Dirk took 7, Stoudemire took 10 and Boozer took 7.5. Beasley was given a more promminent role on offense than any of these players during his first year in the league, which has to be taken into consideration as well. I know that he only played 25 minutes a game (24.8 to be exact) while somebody like Chris Bosh played 33.5 a game, but Bosh was the 4th or 5th option on offense with guys like Vince Carter (took 20 shots a game), Jalen Rose (15 shots a game), Donyell Marshall (13.4 shots a game) and Alvin Williams on the team. I'm not sure what your opinion on the statistic Usage Percentage is, but it does a pretty good job of showing just how much more Beasley was used offensively than the rest of the players that you mentioned. Beasley has a USG% of 27.7 Bosh had a USG% of 18.3 Garnett had a USG% of 17.6 Dirk had a USG% of 22.3 Stoudemire had a USG% of 21.5 Boozer had a USG% of 17.1 I'm not a huge fan of advanced statistics by any means, but when there is such a significant gap between Beasley and the rest of the players that you mentioned, it just goes to show that despite the fact that Beasley only played 25 minutes a game (only Dirk played less at 20 mpg), he was a more promminent fixture for his teams offense when he was on the floor than the rest of the players that you mentioned. Just simply stating that he played 25 minutes a game doesn't really tell the whole story when you take into consideration his more advanced role in his teams offense, at least in my opinion. What Beasley did offensively in only 25 minutes a game as a rookie is very impressive, I'm not trying to deny that, but simply throwing out scoring numbers and saying that he scored more than so and so doesn't really mean much to me unless you state the whole story, which, in my opinion, you did not do. Now if it were a Raptor player that we were dsicussing I would probably leave out points that would weaken my argument as well, so I know where you are coming from. PS: Since Beasley's 2nd year numbers aren't really going to change all that much from now until the end of the season (at least in my opinion) I figured that I would compare them to the other players that you mentioned just for the hell of it. Beasley: 15.3 ppg / 6.6 rpg / 45.4 FG% / 13.5 FGA / 30.5 mpg / 25.4 USG% Bosh: 16.8 ppg / 8.9 rpg / 47.1 FG% / 12.6 FGA / 37.2 mpg / 21.7 USG% Garnett: 17.0 ppg / 8.0 rpg / 49.9 FG% / 14.3 FGA / 38.9 mpg / 21.3 USG% Nowtizki: 17.5 ppg / 6.5 rpg / 46.1 FG% / 13.6 FGA / 35.8 mpg / 21.2 USG% Stoudemire: 20.6 ppg / 9.0 rpg / 47.5 FG% / 15.7 FGA / 36.8 mpg / 27.5 USG% Boozer: 15.5 ppg / 11.4 rpg / 52.3 FG% / 13.6 FGA / 34.6 mpg / 20.0 USG% So while Beasley did put up better numbers as a rookie than Bosh, Garnett, Dirk, Amare and Boozer, his numbers as a sophomore aren't better (again though, the numbers are circumstantial and can be interpeted in different ways). Age really isn't a factor either because there was at most a 1 year age difference between the players (Bosh and Garnett were 20 as 2nd year players while Beasley, Dirk and Amare were/are 21). I'm not insinuating anything with this part of my post, or at least I am not trying to, I was just curious as to how they stacked up in their 2nd years after reading what you said in regards to their rookie seasons. To be fair, 3 out of the 5 players that you mentioned averaged more than 20 ppg in their third seasons in the league as Bosh averaged 22, Amare averaged 26 and Dirk averaged 22. Only Boozer (17.8) and Garnett (18.5) didn't average more then 20. They (Garnett and Boozer) were both at or above 9 rpg though, which I think [hope] that both of us can agree on isn't likely for Beasley. It is possible, but I wouldn't count on it. Also, if you want to get really technical there really isn't a real indicator that Beasley is on pace to average more than 20 ppg next season because the only thing that we really have to go on is his ppg increase from his rookie season to his sophomore season which is 1.4. That would only put him at 16.7. This is obviously a terrible indicator and I acknowledge that, but there really isn't anything to factually show that Beasley is on pace to average more than 20 ppg next season either. It is nothing more than an opinion, which is a valid one considering his scoring prowess, especially if Wade were to leave via free agency and Beasley became the number one option. Conversely, if Wade stays and the Heat manage to land a big name free agent as well it would take touches away from Beasley and make it very difficult to score more than 20 ppg. It is all very circumstantial if you ask me. Everything that I have responded to so far I can certainly see where you are coming from, but to say that it is a very, very unrealistic expectation for Beasley not to be a 25 and 10 guy in his prime is something that I disagree with whole heartidly. If you ask me, 25/10 for Beasley is an absolute best case scenario, but I would even say that is unrealsitic. I'm not sure if you realize just how difficult it is to average 25/10 in the NBA. Kevin Garnett has never done it and he is one of the best power forwards to ever play. Tim Duncan has never even come close to doing it and he is arguably the best power forward to ever play. Off of the top of my head some of the only players that have ever averaged 25/10 in a single season since 1980 are Karl and Moses Malone, Shaquille O'Neal, David Robinson, Hakeem Olajuwon, Patrick Ewing and Charles Barkley. All of these players are first ballot HOF'ers and make up the elite of their position. I find it very unrealistic to expect Beasley to be able to consistently (I assume that since you say in prime you don't mean a one time occasion) put up similiar numbers to these NBA Hall of Famer calibre players. Beasley is a hell of a basketball player and is very talented, but to say it is very, very unrealistic not to expect him to put up 25 and 10 in his prime is straight up laughable if you ask me. Whew, didn't mean to type so much. Sorry about that, Poe.

Houston has scored 17 points in less than 4 minutes. I love it.

Raptors already have a Steve Nash. This guy: http://www.everyjoe.com/nbaobsessed/files/2009/01/jose-calderon-nc-iconphotos761949-nba-feb-02-raptors.jpg

It seems like the Raptors success relies heavily upon how the play of Jarrett Jack. Obviously, Chris Bosh is the catalyst of this team and everything revolves around him when he is playing, but after seeing last nights game and how Jack was basically shut down (11 points and 2 assists) in the Raptors blowout loss to Oklahoma City and comparing it to the Raptors overtime loss against the Cavs on Friday (Jack had 23/4 on 57%), it really brought my attention to this. Well, this and having Brandon mentioning the Raptors record with Jack as the starter on a couple of occasions. So I went on Basketball Reference and looked up some numbers. Raptors record when Jarrett Jack scores 15 or more points: 14-5 Raptors record when Jarrett Jack scores less than 10 points: 12-15 Raptors recors when Jarrett Jack has 7 or more assists: 14-5 Raptors record when Jarrett Jack has 5 or less assists: 13-20 By looking at the numbers and from having watched about 95% of Raptor games this season, it is really evident that as Jack goes so do the Raptors.

Before the season started I was hoping and praying for the Raptors to finish in 5th place this season. When they hit the weak point in their schedule right before the All-Star break I was estatic that the Raptors were able to get a 3 game lead or so over the other bottom tier playoff teams in the East. However, despite the fact that the Raptors have lost 4 games in a row (I think) and have seen their lead over the Bulls for the 5th seed all but disappear, I really don't even care. Now I don't know if it is because I have paid very little attention to the Raptors over the past two weeks with the Olympics on or if I am paying more attention to the NHL right now with the trade deadline approaching or what, but I honestly don't even care if the Raptors get the 5th seed or not because the way that I see it, positioning doesn't really matter all that much. There is a clear cut division between 1-4 and 5-8. The top 4 in the East are clearly better than the bottom 4 playoff teams and the way I look at it, positioning doesn't matter nearly as much as the matchup that you get in the 1st round. Take the Raptors play so far this season. Statistically this season they have played better against Cleveland and Orlando, the top two seeds, than they have against Boston and Atlanta, the 3rd and 4th seeds. They have managed to win a game against both Cleveland and Orlando and have merely a 2 point differential against Cleveland and an 8 point differential against Orlando. Meanwhile, they are winless against both Boston and Atlanta and have a 10 point differential against the Celtics and a whopping 26 point differential against the Hawks. By looking at the numbers it seems that they matchup better against Cleveland and Orlando, who look like they are going to finish 1-2 in the conference, than they do against the Hawks and Celtics. So this begs the question, do you really care whether or not the Raptors finish in 5th place this season or would you rather see them just get the best matchup for them in the first round of the playoffs? EDIT: I realize the Raptors aren't winning a series against any of these teams, but they could be more competitive against some more than others.

Their names are Tristan Thompson and Cory Joseph and they both play for Findlay College Prep. They became only the 3rd and 4th Canadian players to ever be named to the McDonald's All-American roster (kind of ironic, but whatever). Joesph is a 6'3, 180 pound point guard and Thompson is a 6'10, 235 pound forward. Joseph hasn't committed to any colleges yet, but Thompson is going to play next year at Texas. Joseph is ranked as the 3rd best PG recruit and 7th overall while Thompson is ranked as the 5th best PF and 17 overall Here is a 5 minute video of some of their game highlights that I found on youtube. Thompson is number 12 and Joseph is number 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHjRO5IJ0js I don't really know much about the two of them but I figured that this was noteworthy enough to post here. I know that most people probably won't care about this considering this is hardly a big deal even here in Canada (I didn't even hear about it until yesterday) but I think that this is a pretty big accomplishment for Canada Basketball. It definitely goes to show that basketball in Canada, mainly Ontario, is starting to develop some pretty good young players.

Now that we have seen the Raptors play for basically 3 quarters of the season and have been able to get a fairly solid idea of what kind of players the Raptors acquired over the summer, what would you say was the best move that Colangelo made during the summer? During the summer all of the hype was about the Hedo Turkoglu acquisition but with his lackluster play for te majority of the season, a lot of people have looked to other moves such as the signing of Jarrett Jack or trading Carlos Delfino and Roko Ukic for Amir Johnson and Sonny Weems as the best move of the summer. What do you think was the best move that Colangelo made in the summer? List of options are in the poll (left out drafting DeRozan as I wanted to keep this strictly free agency/trade related).

The Raptors have a couple of players whos contracts expire after the end of the season and will have to make a decision on whether or not to resign some of them or let them walk. If you were Bryan Colangelo, who would you resign and what kind of contract would you give them ($$$ and years)? Here is a list of Raptor players whos contracts expire at the end of the season and how much they are making this year (accoroding to Hoopshype): Amir Johnson - $3,666,666 Antoine Wright - $2,110,550 Rasho Nesterovic - $1,990,000 Patrick O'Bryant - $1,620,000 I left out Chris Bosh because it is a given that he should be resigned for a max deal. Also, the Raptors have a team option of $854,389 for Sonny Weems that I would imagine everybody would also pick up so I left him out as well. Like I said in the Sonny Weems thread, this board has been lacking activity lately, at least in comparision to its normal activity, so I figured I'd make a thread and this was the first to come to mind.

It has been pretty slow in regards to Raptors discussion on here, probably because of the Olympics, so I figured I'd make a thread about Sonny Weems. What do you think of Weems' future on this team? If I am not mistaken, his contract expires at the end of next season (although I could be wrong) which will give the Raptors 2 full seasons to see what he is capable of. He is still fairly young (23 I think) and he barely got any playing time last season. I'll admit that when the Raptors acquired him from the Bucks that I figured he was nothing more than a throw in. I figured that he would be Joey Graham 2.0 (and not just because they share a striking resemblance). A player who is a strong athlete, but lacks real basketball skill or IQ to ever become a contributing player in the NBA. However, Weems has been a very pleasent surprise this season. He has had his ups and downs, which is to be expected, but you can see that he has improved since the season began. His jumper has become more consistent and he has become a solid man-to-man defender. He does a good job of running the floor and getting out in transition. He isn't really capable of creating anything off of the dribble and is still fairly inconsistent, but he has definitely played significantly better than I had expected of him this season. With that said, how do you think Sonny Weems factors into the Raptors plans for the future?

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/65026/20100227/bosh_may_not_travel_to_okc_houston/ Even though this means that the Raptors are likely to experience another two losses which will make it 4 straight and it gives the Bulls a great shot at passing the Raptors for the 5th seed, I am actually not all that upset about it. I honestly don't care whether or not the Raptors finish 5th, 6th, 7th or 8th because the top 4 in the East are all clearly superior to the bottom 4. The Raptors seem to match up better with the Cavs and Magic, who are most likely going to finish 1st and 2nd respectively than they do with the Hawks and Celtics. Obviously I would like to see the Raptors win but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they slipped down the standings a bit, in my opinion.

Does anybody else find it hilariously ironic that Anderson Varejao is freaking out over Reggie Evans flopping to get a call?

I think it was pretty obvious that was a typo. lol

Only down by 3 after the first quarter despite the fact that Cleveland has scored 33 points and is shooting above 80% from the field. I'll take it. Honestly, all I want to see from this game is the Raptors playing hard and pushing the Cavs. It is unrealistic to expect, or even hope, for a win without Bosh in the lineup but hopefully the Raptors pick it up on the defensive end and can make the Cavs earn this victory and not just hand them it. EDIT: Cleveland's FG% dropped to 72% by the end of the 1st. Raps picking it up defensively. :glasses:

You should win this, not could. There really is no excuse for the Cavs not to win this game without Bosh in the lineup. Thankfully I saw this thread otherwise I wouldn't have remembered this game was even on.

I wasn't making excuses, I was simply stating the truth. Portland is also more than just an average/above average team which is what the Raptors are. The Blazers have a lot more depth than the Raptors do and are simply the superior team from 1-15. They have better depth which allows them to be able to withstand losing their star player for a period of time. The Raptors don't have that kind of depth and it is fine when they are playing teams like Washington and New Jersey, but it showed when they play a good team like Portland. The Raptors would be hard pressed to beat Portland with Bosh in the lineup and without him stood no chance at beating a team like Portland. That is all that I was getting at. I wasn't using it as an excuse because Portland is simply the better team with or without Bosh in the lineup. I was simply stating that anybody who thought that the Raptors would be able to win this game without Bosh were delusional.

Did anybody realistically expect the Raptors to be able to beat the Blazers without Chris Bosh in the lineup? They were lucky to beat the Wizards and would've lost if not for a huge performance from Jack in the 4th and Bargnani making some clutch blocks. I can't comment on the game or anything because I didn't even watch a second of it, but I would imagine that this Portland victory wasn't much of a surprise given Chris Bosh wasn't playing. The Raptors have some decent depth that enables them to beat teams like New Jersey and Washington without Bosh, but they definitely don't stand a chance against the better teams in the NBA.

I imagine all of the Raptor fans on here would be watching the Canada-Russia hockey game instead of this, but if anybody has been watching this game how has it been so far? I haven't even watched one minute of it.