Nitro

Huh? That's a MAJOR contradiction. Technicals directly affect the outcome of a game because not only does it lead to points on the board for an opposing team, but as another member mentioned it can lead to a key player being thrown out of the game. Everyone is human and everyone has the right to have a temper if they desire, but if you're an NBA referee that is being paid good money to officiate a part of a multi-million dollar business, you have to check that temper at the door before entering the arena. And as for your excuses...errr, insight...on the Nash call and the Billups foul, both can be called as inadvertant whistles, especially the Billups one where Joey Crawford himself managed to commit the foul. Both calls seemed like Crawford and his huge ego didn't want to admit he made a mistake. As Reggie Miller was saying last night during the Cavs/Bulls game when Varejao fouled Dang after the shot-clock expired, the whole point of officiating is to get the game right. Refs are prone to mistakes, but as you have acknowledged, Crawford's anger is a big problem. Officiating mistakes shouldn't go beyond honest mistakes stemming from a referee missing something with his bare eye in the heat of a game. Crawford's issues are something he can resolve himself and many times they go beyond honest mistakes (which he has PLENTY of as well).

Great freestyle as usual, where Eminem has always been at his best IMO. But for all you who are now saying, "He's back!" the dude's been back. Check out this freestyle from back in June when he was on Westwood. Just amazing- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFGYT8-Ku4s

LeBron. If for no other reason than there is a greater chance of Kobe's fallaway jumpers not going down at a high % compared to LeBron's drives to the rim. As good of a defender Kobe is, he is not stopping LeBron from getting to the rim with no help defense whatsoever. LeBron has the size, strength and speed all going for him, and it's not like the man can't shoot a jumper anymore...he's been hitting them at a very respectable rate the last year or two. Not to mention LeBron would be grabbing nearly every board on both the offensive and defensive glass, especially at this stage of Kobe's career where he doesn't have the spring to grab the 7-9RPG that LeBron can in a real NBA game.

Ok, I know this is technically the PLAYER comparison forum, but I thought this would fit. I've been watching a lot of Nets and Knicks basketball lately seeing as I am from NJ and got YES and MSG Network, and with all the hoopla over the 2010 free agent class, it got me wondering...which team has the more lucrative core of players to help lure 1-2 big-name free-agents this summer? Both teams will have a ton of cap room to play with this upcoming summer, and both teams have a few talented young players staying around for at least the next year or two. Currently the Knicks have four players under contract for next season...Wilson Chandler, Danillo Gallinari, Tony Douglas and Bill Walker. The Nets currently have 6 players under contract...Devin Harris, Yi Jianlian, Keyon Dooling (who is likely to be bought out from what I hear), Courtney Lee, Brook Lopez and Terrence Williams. Now keep in mind that with the Nets holding the worst record in the league, they have a terrific chance at landing the #1 draft pick, which will surely be used on Kentucky's John Wall. With all of that said...doesn't it seem kind of ridiculous to anyone else that the Knicks are getting all of the attention regarding the 2010 draft class when the Nets have such a talented young core to build around already? Their record this year has been historically terrible, sure, but they still have an All-Star level PG in Harris, Lopez is already flirting with being a 20/10 big man who continues to improve, Yi is erratic but solid, and Lee and Williams are both two very bright prospects. Not to mention if they could land Wall at the draft, that's a franchise level player that'll be on the roster for years to come. I understand the Knicks are NY's team and everyone wants to play at the Garden, but IMO the Nets are the team that this year's big-name free agents should seriously consider if they do move teams (excluding maybe Miami if Wade stays). With a big-name free agent who could provide the team with the leadership they really, really lack, I think they could be a very dangerous team for years and years to come. Thoughts?

I disagree with that. When Jordan was putting up his big assist numbers and was given greater duty to be a facilitator, his team was offensively challenged. Pippen was still young and developing his jumper and overall game, and after that his only real offensive threat was Craig Hodges and a very young Horace Grant. His team was routinely in the bottom 10 of the league in PPG during the late '80's. When the Bulls finally had players that could shoot the ball and create their own shot, Jordan's assist numbers went down to what you're used to seeing from Kobe. And when Jordan was putting up those big assist numbers, the 3pt line was still a new comodity and it was a rarity to see a team with more than 1-2 players taking over 2 of them a game. Another factor I forgot to mention in my first post regarding Jordan's passing was...his defense. When you are notching over 3SPG like he did the year he won DPOY, it also helps boost the assist totals. That is not to say he was necessarily a better passer in the raw sense than Kobe is on the fastbreak, but again, talent vs. effectiveness. At some point you have to say, "Ok, Kobe may be the more skilled passer, but over their careers, who was the more effective passer?" Both have had dynasty teams, both have had a few scrub teams, and both are the 2 most skilled players the game has ever seen with nearly identical height/weight measurements at the SG position...at that point it comes down to productivity IMO.

This is tough... 1) Dirk Nowitzki 2) Chris Bosh 3) Tim Duncan 4) Pau Gasol 5) Amare Stoudemire Amare gets the slight edge over Boozer. Randolph/Lee/Al Jefferson would all be higher if they could play better D. Randolph has been better this year, but Lee is attrocious defensively (to be fair, a lot of times he is getting burned by Centers, but he is just bad with rotations and is soft defensively), and big Al is still shotty on D. If Jefferson would play like he did last year offensively, he's probably crack my top 5.

I like the list Real Deal, but I'd make 2 small changes... 1) Chris Paul 2) Deron Williams 3) Steve Nash 4) Rajon Rondo 5) Chauncey Billups CP3 and D-Will are without a doubt the 2 best PG's in the league, but I fell that Paul is just more talented overall, more statistically effective and is more capable of dominating games (or series' as he showed in 2008 when he absolutely raped Jason Kidd). Paul is the better pure passer/playmaker, better jumpshooter, better defensive player, and despite the size disadvantage is even the better rebounder by a good margin. I love Deron's game and his smarts, but Paul is just the better player. As for Chauncey Billups going ahead of Rose/Westbrook/etc, it's all about his experience, leadership, and knack for winning wherever he goes. While he is not the playmaker Rose is, and while he is a volume shooter, I'd take his toughness, defense, and ability to just make the right plays and win over Rose, who is only a 2nd year player. If I had to have one of them man the point for my team, I'd go with Chauncey.

What's up ya'll? Long-time since I've posted here. Anyway... For years now I have said that Kobe's the most skilled player to ever play the game. His game is as refined as the game has ever seen...from his raw basketball IQ to his near-perfect jumpshot (that extends as far as he wants it to), to his incredible footwork, passing ability, defense..the guy has it all. With that said, there is always a gap between talent/skill and overall effectiveness. If talent and skill meant everything, T-Mac, who at one time was right there with Kobe in every aspect of the offensive side of the game, would have been one of the greatest to ever play. Obviously, that didn't work out (sigh...). I'll ellaborate more on that idea and how it relates to this topic throughout this post... In terms of post-game at the guard position, Kobe and Jordan are 1A and 1B. Both have/had unbelievable footwork, fadeaway jumper, and IQ to abuse smaller players in the post. Kobe is probably the more talented post player...he is a better ballhandler than Jordan was, and thus he has more moves/options to go to when he has the post position. Kobe also has a better off-hand than Jordan did, which occasionally will enable him to do some things that Jordan just couldn't in the post. With all that said, Jordan was the more effective post player, especially from '95-'98. Jordan was stronger and did a better job than Kobe at getting a good 3-5ft deeper on his post-ups, giving him higher % looks most of the time. And while Kobe's jumper overall is better, Jordan was LETHAL in the mid-post with the fadeaway. And when Jordan got close to the basket, he was the better finisher at the rim at every point of his career than Kobe was at those same points in his own respective career. Jordan was strictly a mid-post player after his first retirement and still managed to notch 3 scoring titles, with FG %'s the first 2 years better than Kobe has ever had in his career. And when Jordan came back yet again with the Wizards as he knocked down 40's door, he still was able to average 23PPG and 20PPG in his 2 seasons there, including being the oldest player to have a 50pt game. And by that point he was not scoring anywhere but the post. No complaint. Disagree. Again, it comes to talent/skill vs. effectiveness. I might agree with you in saying that Kobe has the ability to make flashier passes and at times can be a tremendous playmaker for his teammates. With that said, Kobe's had only 2 seasons in his career with over 5.5APG...one year he averaged 5.9APG but also 3.5 TO's, and the other was the one year in his prime where he was not playing within the triangle and he averaged 6.0APG...with 4.1 TO's, which is a high number. Early in Jordan's career, right about when Phil Jackson was hired as head coach of the Bulls and Pippen was still growing, Jordan was given the duty of being the primary playmaker/ballhandler and in a 4-year stretch he had seasons with 8.0APG, 6.3APG, 5.5APG and 6.1APG...with his highest TO number in that 4 year stretch being 3.6. Phil Jackson himself said that when he was put in the PG position and was committed to playing the position, that Jordan could dominate at point. The biggest reason was that Jordan, especially young MJ, was pentrating the defense at will and because he was so disgustingly productive scoring the ball when he still had that explosiveness, he constantly had the defense collapsing and not knowing what to do. That leaves plently of open shooters. Early MJ was almost identical to D-Wade in that regard...you can say what you want about Wade's raw passing ability and playmaking, but because of how often he gets into the paint it leaves many players open to let him notch 7-8APG. Kobe's game is more perimeter oriented and always has been, and thus it is a lot tougher for him to do some of the things at PG that Jordan could. Agreed. Although with that said, Jordan was just as good if not better than Kobe when it comes to overall clutch situations...his play was ALWAYS elevated in the playoffs. In 13 post-seasons (that's post-seasons, not just individual series'), Jordan averaged less than 30PPG only ONCE (rookie year), averaged less than 46% shooting only twice (both post-seasons were 3-4 games long for him), SEVEN times averaged over 34PPG, SIX times averaged over 6APG, SEVEN times averaged 6.5RPG or better...the guy was just a monster in the playoffs. That's not to say Kobe is a slouch in the playoffs, but Jordan's numbers just destroy Kobe's in the post-season, even dring Kobe's best years. Agreed, although I will say when committed, Kobe is every bit as good of an on-ball defender as MJ. So yeah, those are my counter-points to your arguement. To sum it up, as I said multiple times, it's skill/talent vs. effectiveness when it comes to comparing most aspects of these 2 players. Kobe has always had a higher ceiling than MJ due to being the greater talent, but because of how the two play over 82 game seasons/post-seasons/careers, MJ was the better, more effective player.