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Lightning28

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  6. Where do you think Kobe ranks in the all-time list?

    in Player Comparisons

    Posted · Edited by Lightning28

    Duncan did have amazing longevity, but not quite the same as Kobe's. I felt Duncan was around a top 3 player from 98-07, while Kobe has been from 00-present, and currently he is having one of the best individual seasons of his career and doesn't look to be slowing down much.

    I'm not sure if Kobe was top 3 in '04-'05 since he was pretty much injured and his team missed the post-season. He was top 3 at the very least in all the other seasons and was the best player in the league too.

     

    I think Kobe was the best player in the league in '05-'06, '06-'07, '07-'08, and '08-'09.

     

    I think Duncan was the best in the league in '98-'99, '02-'03, and '04-'05.

     

    I think Kobe wins although a lot of people say LeBron was the best in '08-'09, I don't agree with it though.

     

    Kobe has had a longer string of All-NBA 1st team selections and All-NBA Defensive selections. Kobe is about to be play in his 14th ASG, where as Duncan's streak ends this year (and Kobe will have 2 more All-Star starts). Kobe has stayed playing 35-40MPG for the last 14 seasons while Pop has needed to cut Duncan's minutes by around 10 minutes from when he was at his peak. All of Duncan's top 3 finishes in MVP voting came from 98-04, while Kobe's came from 02-10 and he is likely to finish top 3 this season.

     

    As for accolades and accomplishments, right now they are nearly dead-even. Duncan has one more MVP and Finals MVP, while Kobe has one more championships and a few more All-NBA and All-Star selections, and 2 more scoring titles. The difference right now is that Kobe's accolades and accomplishments keep growing, with another scoring title and All-NBA 1st team selection likely to be added this season, while Duncan's pretty much done with the individual accomplishments.

     

    I personally do not think All-NBA teams and All-NBA Defensive teams mean much mainly because it is just the opinion of other people. I prefer thinking myself and not relying on others to do it for me.

     

    A lot of people felt like Kobe wasn't deserving of All-NBA First team over Wade last season anyways. He sure as hell did not deserve the past two All-NBA Defensive first teams in the past two seasons either. You can argue a few seasons where Duncan didn't belong in the defensive team either though.

     

    Kobe didn't get any MVP votes in '04-'05 too.

     

    At their peaks, I felt Duncan was the slightly better player. He was an incredible post player who could give you 25PPG, was an unbelievable defender, great passer out of the post, and sensational rebounder. He simply impacted the game on a greater scale than Kobe. However, I feel his peak as that dominant #1 guy lasted less than Kobe's. For a decade now Kobe has been one of the very few players who can truly carry a team on his back by giving you 30PPG on solid efficiency (his TS% is almost always better than Duncan's, FWIW), can be the primary ballhandler and facilitate the offense while giving you 5-6APG, is one of the best rebounders at his position, can play lockdown defense when focused, and the one thing he could do that Duncan always needed guys like Ginobili for is he can be a guy you can give him the ball anywhere on the floor in clutch situations and have him consistently make a play. He also has been a tremendous leader, incredibly consistent, and gives you 40MPG if you need it (definitely a knock on Duncan when comparing him to Kobe).

     

    Do you think intangibles such as leadership, team play, etc. mean much? I'm assuming not and that is why Shaq is above Duncan anyways and Shaq was a horrible teammate. I understand your point though and it was an excellent point although many people argue statistically that Kobe was always overrated in the clutch.

     

    Overall, I just feel Kobe's longevity, both in the scope of his career and his peak, was more impressive than Duncan's, and they were close enough at their peaks to where that is the deal-breaker for me.

    Good post but I just wanted to address a few things, I hope you read it and address them.

  7. Replace McGrady in Houston with LeBron from '04-'09

    in Player Comparisons

    Posted

    I don't see how LeBron was "wasted in Cleveland". I don't know what else you would want the Cavs to have done. It's not that easy to just get 2 MVP caliber players on a small market team. The wide array of talent we got was sufficient. Look at the guys he played with and how they are playing well on their respective teams now. Whether it's Mo in LAC, Delonte in Dallas, Jamison, Boobie, and Varejao in Cleveland, or Gooden in Milwaukee. They are all putting up at least 10 ppg (besides Gibson with 8), and that's with some of them playing much less minutes than when playing in Cleveland.

     

    Besides, I think LeBron plays better with complementary talent than talent equal to his.

    He wasted in a sense that he didn't play with a post player. That's all I said, way to take the thread topic out of context though. How do you think LeBron-Yao would have done?

  8. Replace McGrady in Houston with LeBron from '04-'09

    in Player Comparisons

    Posted · Edited by Lightning28

    http://www.nba.com/media/mediacentralns/yao_lebron_200_040213.jpg

     

    Tmac was the ultimate loser that pretty much wasted most of Yao's career in Houston. Yao was better off never playing with Tmac.

     

    LeBron also never got to play with an elite offensive post player like Yao was. I mean who was LeBron's best post-player in Cleveland? Jamison? Big Z? LeBron was kind of wasted in Cleveland on that part. I always thought that LeBron needed a post-scorer and Jamison was never the answer to that question although Jamison in '10 was better than anything he ever had.

     

    Now lets replace Tmac in Houston with LeBron from '04-'09. The only reason why I stopped at '09 opposed to '10 is because that was pretty much the last season Yao and Tmac were playing for Houston.

     

    So from the '04-'05 season to the '08-'09 season. How do you think the duo of LeBron James and Yao Ming would have fared?

     

     

    I think they would have won the championship in '08-'09 for sure though. I'm not so positive about the other seasons.

  9. Where do you think Kobe ranks in the all-time list?

    in Player Comparisons

    Posted

    I've stated many times how overrated Wilt is. It's one thing if you're winning the way Russell did in an inferior era, but it's a completely different thing when you're dominant statistically, but can't win in that specific era. The same goes to Oscar Robertson who's only title came when he was playing with a top 3 player of all time..

     

    Think about it, the fact that Kareem won as many titles as Wilt by the time he retired in '73 is enough to prove that Wilt was obsessed with padding his stats and records rather than getting rings. By the time Wilt retired, Kareem already had half as many titles and MVPs. In comparison to Russell, Wilt's winning makes up only a small percentage of Bill's success, despite Bill retiring 4 years earlier. It was always something with Wilt.. Wilt played on better teams than Kareem until of course Magic came to LA. Even Kareem's '71 team isn't better than a lot of teams Wilt was on. He's one of the biggest underachievers ever in the history of sports.

     

    Anyways, here's my list..

     

    1. Jordan

    2. Russell

    3. Kareem

    4. Magic

    5. Bird

    6. Shaq

    7. Kobe

    8. Duncan

    9. Hakeem

    10. Wilt

    Could you explain why Kobe is above Duncan and Dream? I just want some clarification.

  10. Where do you think Kobe ranks in the all-time list?

    in Player Comparisons

    Posted

    To be fair, Wilt's era may have been inferior, but the reason he didn't win more championships was because Russell's Celtics had more HoF'rs on it than any team in NBA history, from the players to the coach.

     

    But I agree with most everything you said, otherwise, and we pretty much agree on the top 10.

    The HOFers Wilt and Russell played with are actually pretty close. It's not as big of a margin as most people make it as.

  11. Where do you think Kobe ranks in the all-time list?

    in Player Comparisons

    Posted

     

     

    Duncan and Hakeem are right with Kobe. At their peaks, I think both were better and more impactful than Kobe. However, neither of their peaks lasted long enough to put over Kobe, who has had one of the most remarkable longevity in league history. And throwing in Kobe's advantage in championships and some other individual accolades, Kobe may have the edge. Hakeem's peak was absolutely unbelievable and insanely dominant, though, so I may take Hakeem by a very slight hair at this moment, and give Kobe the edge over Duncan.

    Could you elaborate on this, specifically the bold? Duncan is known for supposedly having a dominant longevity. His prime was supposedly from his rookie season to like 2007. I know a lot of people claim that Duncan entered the league in his prime because he played 4 years in College and was extremely polished. I do think Duncan's '03 season is overrated though. I've heard some people say it was better than Hakeem's '94 season.

     

    Duncan's accolades and accomplishments are just as good, if not better than Kobe's too. Again I just want to know your answer, I don't even necessarily disagree. You can say I'm pretty much playing devils advocate.

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