JR Smith, the next Kobe Bryant?

[EastCoastNiner]

There are no winners in this debate until we see the result and find out who is right, since this is a debate about things that haven't even happened yet. If JR averages 25 ppg for a full season at some point in his career, Snake wins. If JR doesn't ever reach that mark, RD wins.

 

Not at all. Unless J.R. Smith wins multiple MVPs' scoring title, and championships, Snake loses this by an infinite amount.

[Multi-Billionaire]

^You have more brain cramps than J.R. does.

 

When did I say he'd win MVP and all that stuff?

[EastCoastNiner]

^You have more brain cramps than J.R. does.

 

When did I say he'd win MVP and all that stuff?

 

 

"J.R. Smith the next Kobe Bryant"?

 

If he doesn't accomplish any of that, how can you possibly say he's the next Kobe Bryant? .

Edited September 4, 2010 by EastCoastNiner

[Multi-Billionaire]

^When did I say he's the next Kobe? lol

[EastCoastNiner]

^When did I say he's the next Kobe? lol

 

Look no further than the title. .

 

That's the question you proposed. .

[Poe]

Look no further than the title. .

 

That's the question you proposed. .

 

And who made the thread?

[Multi-Billionaire]

[fish7718]

"J.R. Smith the next Kobe Bryant"?

 

If he doesn't accomplish any of that, how can you possibly say he's the next Kobe Bryant? .

 

Multiple MVP's? We are not comparing him to LeBron James or Steve Nash!

Look no further than the title. .

 

That's the question you proposed. .

I made the thread and it was to mock some kids bleacher report lol, didn't think it would spark an actual discussion.

[Real Deal]

The debate was over Snake's opinion that JR Smith is a potential superstar in this league. Not Kobe, of course, but a superstar...someone that can average 25 PPG or more and lead his team to the playoffs.

 

I made it clear that Smith will not do that. If he DOES average 25 PPG (and I don't even think he'll do THAT), he'll be like Kevin Martin and his 17-win Kings (mentioned this earlier, actually).

 

Smith is not a top SG in the league, let alone in the West, and he never will be.

[Multi-Billionaire]

"Never will"? Where did you buy your crystal ball? I want one. lol

 

Would you agree that this guy's brain is the ONLY thing that prevents him from living to his full talent? If yes, then would you agree if someone could reach to him and "fix" that brain, that there's a possibility, hope, he can average 25 ppg? Kevin Martin doesn't have "brain" problems.

 

And we'd never know if Kobe would be the Kobe he is today had Phil not taken the Lakers job in 1999. That Kobe had lots of maturity problems, so much that Phil wanted the team to trade him for Marion and Kidd in his first season, and even after winning 2-3 championships, Phil said (in his book) he wouldn't return to coach if Kobe returned. Without Phil, Kobe would probably have been another Michael Finley when he was on a bad Mavs team, averaging 25 ppg on 30-35 shots with AI-like FG percentage. He probably would have never won a single championship. And that's why, I think Phil can reach to J.R. If he could reach to Kobe he can reach to J.R.

[EastCoastNiner]

Multiple MVP's? We are not comparing him to LeBron James or Steve Nash!

 

I made the thread and it was to mock some kids bleacher report lol, didn't think it would spark an actual discussion.

 

For whatever reason I thought Snake made the thread considering he's posted the most in it. I totally forgot it was from a Bleacher Report article.

[Real Deal]

Would you agree that this guy's brain is the ONLY thing that prevents him from living to his full talent?

No. He doesn't possess the skills Bryant does. Sitting here and saying he can re-define his skills and get much better...I can say the same damn thing for any player in the league. Smith is a decent player that is decent doing a lot of things on the court, but not great in any of them.

 

He's not among the smartest players in the league.

 

He's not among the best shooters.

 

He's not among the best defenders.

 

He's not among the best passers.

 

He's not among the best ball-handlers.

 

He's not among the fastest players.

 

Sitting here saying it's all in his brain? I don't buy that. He doesn't do ANYTHING great. He never did.

 

And we'd never know if Kobe would be the Kobe he is today had Phil not taken the Lakers job in 1999. That Kobe had lots of maturity problems, so much that Phil wanted the team to trade him for Marion and Kidd in his first season, and even after winning 2-3 championships, Phil said (in his book) he wouldn't return to coach if Kobe returned. Without Phil, Kobe would probably have been another Michael Finley when he was on a bad Mavs team, averaging 25 ppg on 30-35 shots with AI-like FG percentage. He probably would have never won a single championship. And that's why, I think Phil can reach to J.R. If he could reach to Kobe he can reach to J.R.

Two different situations. Smith has never been on a "bad team" like Finley and Kevin Martin. He has had the opportunity to shoot 13-14 FGA per game (Gasol's average). He has been given the opportunity to be clutch, to start, to defend, to run the team, to do all of it as a second scoring option...and he did not play like the All-Star you want us to believe he is.

 

Phil wanted Kidd and Marion in 1999 because Kidd was putting up 17/7/11 and was becoming one of the best players in the NBA, including defensively, and Marion was already showing how incredible of a defender he was going to be, along with the impressive first-year numbers. Phil was under the impression that he was going to get two superstar players for the price of one, and that Kobe was not a triangle player.

 

He was wrong, and it had nothing to do with coaching him. Bryant even told Phil he was un-coachable.

 

Funny part was, Kobe had "maturity problems" up until 2004, yet he was putting up 30/7/6 on 45% FG and flashing three championship rings, two of which he was co-leader for, running the triangle offense himself AND averaging 25-30 a game.

 

Immature players (LeBron comes to mind, and the young Kobe) still show superstardom. JR Smith hasn't. He won't. No need to keep thinking otherwise.

[Poe]

Immature players (LeBron comes to mind, and the young Kobe) still show superstardom. JR Smith hasn't. He won't. No need to keep thinking otherwise.

 

JR's biggest problem is not immaturity, and it may go beyond coaching. It's his lack of focus. I believe there are other ways to help him other than putting him under the greatest coach of all time. If I knew JR personally, I'd introduce him to a few things that may help him with his focusing issues.

 

It is also possible that JR simply doesn't care about reaching his full potential. That requires a mass amount of effort in and outside of games, in and out of practice, on and off the court. It's possible that he is actually satisfied enough on surviving on talent alone, getting paid enough to live a good life and enough minutes to feel needed, and doesn't have the desire to go any further than that.

 

 

Me personally, I do believe that JR has as much natural talent as any other player in the league. What he's missing is the elite focus and work ethic that elite players have. Sure, giving him a supreme coach like Phil Jackson may very well do wonders for him, but he's not going to 180 his mindset unless he makes the change himself, or unless somebody finds and pushes the magic button.

 

 

Phil Jackson has one year left of coaching in him (IIRC). Like I said, there are other ways to solve JR's biggest issue, some of which are probably unknown to JR (as well as most of the world, actually), some of which may have to do with the right people reaching out to him (like Ron Artest's doctor helping Ron with his emotional issues), and some of which has to do with JR making the changes within (which does have a very, very little chance of happening unfortunately).

 

 

Sorry if that post is a bit all over the place, but I hope you guys understand my point.

[Force]

JR prolly won't be a future superstar, but he has the tools to be a force. Amazing athleticism, can finish at the rim, can knock down the three. But his mind is not in the right place, and will prolly never get to play to his full potential cuz the dude is crazy and doesnt posses the work-ethic and dedication that others do.

[Nitro]

You guys realize J.R.'s 27.7 mpg is 5th on the team right? And he's not a starter and that he's not the PG of the team... that's why he's just 6th on the team in assist... and the three guys ahead of him in that department are PGs (Billups, Carter, Ty)... and Nene is one of the best passing bigs in the L, and Melo's 0.8+ apg is the result of him dominating the ball and playing 11 mpg more than J.R.

 

Ginobili doesn't start and isn't a PG, averages just 28.8MPG and 12.0FGA, but manages 4.9APG. And that's on a team that averages 5 less points than the Nuggets do.

 

My point is that regardless of Smith's minutes and playing position, if he was an elite playmaking SG he's at LEAST crack 3.0APG once in his career. Regardless of his relationship with his coaches they would have given him the oppertunity once in six seasons to run the offense consistently, or he would have been traded because another team would take advantage of those skills. Name another SG who at one time you'd say would be the best in the league at running an offense (like you say JR is) that didn't crack 3.0APG once in a six-season span. I dare you.

 

If I were to choose an NBA SG to run my team's offense, J.R. would be on top of my list. T-Mac? He's washed up. Kobe? He's too offensive minded to do it for long stretch.

 

Washed-up T-Mac was still 2nd on the Knicks in assists last year with 3.9 dimes per game in less minutes than JR averaged last season. Kobe has esstentially ran the offense for 5 championship teams, so I won't even go there.

 

And what about Wade, Ginobili, Iguodala, $JJ, etc...?

 

J.R. can only make occasional flashy pass? I agree that most NBA players can do some flashy passes, but if you think these flashy passes are what I want you to notice from J.R.'s passing ability, you're mistaken.

 

Then why post those videos? So even if you lose this debate at least you'll eat up my bandwith?

 

Watch more Nugget games, you'd be surprised he doesn't commit turnovers on his passes. He does what PGs do, penetrates, draws defenders and you will see that J.R. drops a perfect pass to his bigs (alley oop, bounce, or straight) or kick out to outside shooters. I was and am still surprised by how well he passes, but what surprises me the most are his vision and unselfishness.

 

He doesn't commit turnovers on passes? 82games.com says otherwise. JR's AST:TO (turnovers only on passes) is roughly 2.5:1. Fr $JJ it's 5:1. For T-Mac it's 4.5:1. For Kobe it's 3.5:1. Gibobili is 4:1. Iguodala is 4.5:1. Wade is 4.5:1.

 

ALL of those players nearly double Smith in passer rating too, which doesn't take into account volume (which means JR's rating isn't low because he doesn't average as many assists as those guys), but rather the quality of their passing game as a whole.

 

Unselfish? J.R.? Yes, he can be trigger happy with his 3 pointers but other than that he is very unselfish. That is why I do think you don't watch enough J.R./ Nugget games.

 

Nearly 15 FGA (2nd on the team) in just 28MPG, with <3APG says otherwise. And how can I NOT watch enough Nuggets game? They're on national TV all the damn time.

[Hawks Fly High]

Hes not as good as Kobe because kobe is fun and good at shooting

[Flash]

This is still being discussed? Seriously?

[YugoRocketsFan]

Hes not as good as Kobe because kobe is fun and good at shooting

 

lolz

[*Swish*]

I don't even understand why this thread is not dead. JR Smith will NEVER be close to Kobe.

[Lkr]

This is like having a debate over an article posted on the onion.