Would LeBron be 7-8 with Dwight, Pau, Nash on his team?

[Cleveland's Finest]

How can someone taking like 10 shots a game (shooting 60% on them) be throwing this team sooooo out of sync? His defensive stats are phenominal as well, and his rebounding is slightly lower than usual because he's playing next to a guy who is naturally a C in Pau.

 

If he was getting so many offensive opportunities you might have a slight reason to say that, but he's not getting a ton of opportunities.

 

He's a liability on the floor in the fourth quarter. I watched their game against the Nets and they specifically avoided passing to Dwight on a possession. You can't have that. Then it's essentially 5 on 4. And his defense isn't at "elite" status. It's merely solid. His post game isn't that impressive either. He's primarily a one way player, and the one way he excelled at, defense, is no longer as prominent.

 

Because he's hogging the paint, Pau is outside more. Unfortunately Pau will get blamed and probably traded, but Dwight's the problem.

[Real Deal]

Just because I don't have the same opinion as you doesn't mean I'm trolling. If you have a problem with a specific feel free to point it out. Everything I say is true. Whether you want to believe it or not is your prerogative.

http://i54.tinypic.com/11hw5ef.gif

 

I personally invited you back, thinking you weren't going to spend 100% of your time doing the same shit you have done since registering here in 2005 (actually, you were a pretty good poster for a while when you were much younger, and I considered sticking you on our writing team because of it...but then you fell off a cliff).

 

What has actually changed since you were given the boot, honestly? I mean, dude...at this point, I'm not even intrigued to come in and debate with anything you're saying. Almost did, but I'm already having flashbacks...and it's more of a nuisance now.

 

Aside from you saying that you SEE Kobe playing the worst basketball he has ever played...everything else (from offensive basic stats, like FG% and TS%, to defensive advanced stats) prove otherwise. You point to team record, and your topic didn't consider Nash playing just one game for us this season...or that we had a coach that has no offense (who had to rely on Kuester back in Cleveland, to draw up all the plays).

 

And I know you're actually smarter than that, so you're trolling. It's hard to really care at this point, though...and you're not even in high school anymore (at least I don't think you are).

[Nitro]

Lol oppenent PER? What the [expletive] is this shit? Kobe guards the other teams worst offensive threat every night, he makes little to no impact on that end of the floor. Next.

 

Stats, that's what it is. Check out other star perimeter players who don't always take the best assignment...Wade, Westbrook, Pierce, Joe Johnson, etc... Their numbers don't touch what Kobe is doing.

 

And FYI, per 100 possessions the Lakers are 14 points worse defensively when Kobe is off the court as opposed to being on the court. That is a big difference that is NOT a coincidence.

 

And anyone who has watched Kobe play this season can see he has played tremendous defense. More than half his All-Defense 1st teams have been COMPLETE bullshit, but this season he's played damn good on that end of the floor.

 

What else does Kobe do? Give you average rebounding and playmaking in major minutes?

 

Stackhouse, at his best, shot a shade under 41% from the field, with a TS% of .520. He had an Ortg of 104 which is pretty [expletive]ing bad considering his production. His efficiency was below league average, which isn't good for a volume scorer. He had a PER of 21.8, his only season over 20.

 

So far this season Kobe is shooting over 50% from the field, with a TS% over .630, which means he is scoring more on better efficiency than LeBron, Durant, Harden, and the other top scorers in the league. He has an Ortg of 118, and a PER over 26.

 

So once again, comparing him to Stackhouse is ridiculous.

 

The Lakers were the favorites against every opponent they faced in either playoff run, with or without Bynum.

 

Those guys like Sasha,Farmar,Ariza,whatever may not sound like appealing names, but in those years those were some high energy contributors that were nice to have off your bench. Those guys brought energy and spark off the bench. Who does LA have now? Jamison? Steve Blake? LOL Ill take young legs over useless veteran anyday.

 

Yes games are decided by who has the best player. Look at the teams throughout history that won THE game, the championship. You will see top ELITE hall of famers on nearly every team(except the Pistons).

 

Once again, those guys, besides Ariza, are out of the league now, and not because of old age (except Fisher). They may have been favorites, but that's largely because of Kobe, who was the best player in essentially every series during those 2 runs. He averaged 30/5/5 both of those championship runs on very solid efficiency. Those are HoF numbers.

 

Jordan didn't win shit until he had an elite team around him. Hakeem was stuck with shit teams and didn't win anything until he got a respectable supporting cast around him. Shaq had a HoF wing each of his 4 championships (though in 2000 Kobe wasn't really a superstar yet). KG DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS for 4 straight years during his prime, and got out of the 1st round just once his first 13 seasons. It wasn't until he had Pierce and Allen did he get over the hump.

 

Kobe is an ELITE HoF player. Dwight will be a HoF player and when he's on he is a top 5 player in the league today. You don't need the best player in the league to win a championship. If that was the case, LeBron would have about 4 championships now.

 

So if Nash gets single digit points/assists the Lakers will get what they thought they were with Nash? Nope.

 

Good luck having Nash replicate his Dallas numbers with Kome in the starting lineup. I look forward to that idea actually coming to fruition. LOL

 

I never said he needs to have single digit points and assists. But 15/8 on 50/40/90 shooting will be more than enough considering they got 3 other players capable of scoring over 25 points on any given night.

[Nitro]

He's a liability on the floor in the fourth quarter. I watched their game against the Nets and they specifically avoided passing to Dwight on a possession. You can't have that. Then it's essentially 5 on 4. And his defense isn't at "elite" status. It's merely solid. His post game isn't that impressive either. He's primarily a one way player, and the one way he excelled at, defense, is no longer as prominent.

 

Because he's hogging the paint, Pau is outside more. Unfortunately Pau will get blamed and probably traded, but Dwight's the problem.

 

His defense has absolutely been elite. Nearly 3 blocks a game, has the 5th best Drtg in the league (and is the ONLY member of LA in the top 20...pretty much everyone else in the top 20 has a teammate in the top 20, because their team's Drtg is so low), top 10 in rebounds, and he LEADS the league is Dws.

 

I agree his FT shooting is an issue in the 4th, but the same could be said for Shaq. That is why you have guys like Kobe, Pau and Nash. To me his biggest problem this season has been the turnovers, and simply not getting enough post attempts.

[Dizzle]

Stats, that's what it is. Check out other star perimeter players who don't always take the best assignment...Wade, Westbrook, Pierce, Joe Johnson, etc... Their numbers don't touch what Kobe is doing.

 

And FYI, per 100 possessions the Lakers are 14 points worse defensively when Kobe is off the court as opposed to being on the court. That is a big difference that is NOT a coincidence.

 

And anyone who has watched Kobe play this season can see he has played tremendous defense. More than half his All-Defense 1st teams have been COMPLETE bullshit, but this season he's played damn good on that end of the floor.

 

Stats to value man defense? Sorry, but in a team game there are too many variables for me to take that seriously. Maybe if basketball was one on one you'd have a point.

 

Kobe spends the majority of the game guarding the corner three point specialist so I'm not sure where your seeing his defensive impact.

 

Kobe has played 84.4% of his minutes this year with Dwight on the floor. No shit the backups are going to have a weaker defense. Thats why they don't play the big minutes.

 

As a Miami Heat fan I can say Wade is far superior defensively. Wade makes plays, he gets in the passing lanes, he can run the floor, he is explosive, he can switch faster. Just a superior defender overall. All I have to do is watch them to see who is better.

 

Stackhouse, at his best, shot a shade under 41% from the field, with a TS% of .520. He had an Ortg of 104 which is pretty [expletive]ing bad considering his production. His efficiency was below league average, which isn't good for a volume scorer. He had a PER of 21.8, his only season over 20.

 

So far this season Kobe is shooting over 50% from the field, with a TS% over .630, which means he is scoring more on better efficiency than LeBron, Durant, Harden, and the other top scorers in the league. He has an Ortg of 118, and a PER over 26.

 

So once again, comparing him to Stackhouse is ridiculous.

 

Yeah Stackhouse was an example I used in retaliation for Kobe leading the league in scoring as to why hes amazing. Stackhouse led the league in points.

 

Like Stackhouse Kobe doesn't do anything at an above average NBA level anymore. You are just giving me more scoring statistics when it is obvious his percentages will go down rather than remain the same.

 

Once again, those guys, besides Ariza, are out of the league now, and not because of old age (except Fisher). They may have been favorites, but that's largely because of Kobe, who was the best player in essentially every series during those 2 runs. He averaged 30/5/5 both of those championship runs on very solid efficiency. Those are HoF numbers.

 

Jordan didn't win shit until he had an elite team around him. Hakeem was stuck with shit teams and didn't win anything until he got a respectable supporting cast around him. Shaq had a HoF wing each of his 4 championships (though in 2000 Kobe wasn't really a superstar yet). KG DIDN'T EVEN MAKE THE PLAYOFFS for 4 straight years during his prime, and got out of the 1st round just once his first 13 seasons. It wasn't until he had Pierce and Allen did he get over the hump.

 

Kobe is an ELITE HoF player. Dwight will be a HoF player and when he's on he is a top 5 player in the league today. You don't need the best player in the league to win a championship. If that was the case, LeBron would have about 4 championships now.

 

Weren't you telling me earlier that whoever has the best player doesn't matter? And now your telling me they were always the favorites because they had the best player?

 

Supporting Casts matter.

 

But Star players matter more. Unless your able to assemble a team with a borderline allstar at every position(like Detroit did) your going to require an ELITE player to compete for the NBA Championship. Not necessarily the best, but one of the 5 true superstars in the league.

 

The NBA is a player league and your going to go as far as your star takes you. Thats the difference between the Heat in 2011 and 2012. LeBron failed in 2011 and in 2012 he put forth a playoff run that hasn't been seen since the days of Prime Shaquille O'Neal.

 

Kobe is not part of that top 5 Elite superstar status anymore. Dwight was last year, and if LA wants to win it'll be on his shoulders.

I never said he needs to have single digit points and assists. But 15/8 on 50/40/90 shooting will be more than enough considering they got 3 other players capable of scoring over 25 points on any given night.

 

15 PPG? Good luck

 

http://i54.tinypic.com/11hw5ef.gif

 

I personally invited you back, thinking you weren't going to spend 100% of your time doing the same shit you have done since registering here in 2005 (actually, you were a pretty good poster for a while when you were much younger, and I considered sticking you on our writing team because of it...but then you fell off a cliff).

 

What has actually changed since you were given the boot, honestly? I mean, dude...at this point, I'm not even intrigued to come in and debate with anything you're saying. Almost did, but I'm already having flashbacks...and it's more of a nuisance now.

 

Aside from you saying that you SEE Kobe playing the worst basketball he has ever played...everything else (from offensive basic stats, like FG% and TS%, to defensive advanced stats) prove otherwise. You point to team record, and your topic didn't consider Nash playing just one game for us this season...or that we had a coach that has no offense (who had to rely on Kuester back in Cleveland, to draw up all the plays).

 

And I know you're actually smarter than that, so you're trolling. It's hard to really care at this point, though...and you're not even in high school anymore (at least I don't think you are).

 

http://i.imgur.com/YZHWJ.jpg

[Real Deal]

http://i.imgur.com/YZHWJ.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/f054kp.jpg

 

Peace.

[EastCoastNiner]

http://i47.tinypic.com/f054kp.jpg

 

Peace.

 

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[His Greatness]

aww it was a good read till he got banned.

Edited November 29, 2012 by His Greatness

[Paris]

the guy who made this thread must be a major kobe hater, LOL. question, why are lebron fans so disrepectful towards kobe? doesn't make sense. im no lebron fan, but i just don't endlessly bash him like he's chopped liver. i respect great players. most lebron fans are young tho, so i guess the immaturity and ignorance about anything before 2007 should be expected. its not all of them, but majority need to learn how to respect greatness.

[Real Deal]

the guy who made this thread must be a major kobe hater, LOL. question, why are lebron fans so disrepectful towards kobe? doesn't make sense. im no lebron fan, but i just don't endlessly bash him like he's chopped liver. i respect great players. most lebron fans are young tho, so i guess the immaturity and ignorance about anything before 2007 should be expected. its not all of them, but majority need to learn how to respect greatness.

He's not a LeBron fan, he's an anything-but-Kobe fan. His favorite player is Shaq, and up until 2009, his entire argument centered around Kobe not winning without O'Neal. Once that happened, it was all about Gasol being the MVP of the Lakers (lol), and now, I'm not sure what he's saying.

[Paris]

He's not a LeBron fan, he's an anything-but-Kobe fan. His favorite player is Shaq, and up until 2009, his entire argument centered around Kobe not winning without O'Neal. Once that happened, it was all about Gasol being the MVP of the Lakers (lol), and now, I'm not sure what he's saying.

lol, yep ive actually heard a couple kobe haters say that gasol was the best player in the playoffs thing. hey, they had to come up with something since the can't win w/o shaq became null and void.

[Make It Naaaashty]

Lol that guy was entertaining. Shouldve stuck with him mayneee

[Smitty]

This dude Diesel has not changed at all lol

[YugoRocketsFan]

Diesel and I were the Kobe-hating duo back in the old days, was pretty funny