How much longer?

[ChosenOne]

How much longer should/will LA wait to make another big move? (trade gasoft? fire mike?) Have we seen enough of this experiment yet?

[kingfish]

Nobody will trade for Gasol. Ive never seen another play decline as fast as he has, in the way that he has. Some players fall to injuries, and are never what they once were (TMac, for example), but Pau has just fallen off for no apparent reason. Hes lost some athleticism sure (not that he ever had much), but he was supposedly the "most skilled big man" in the NBA. He doesnt look like he belongs to be on the court against most teams, he gets destroyed by anyone whos just more athletic then he is, even if its just a little bit.

 

Our problems start from within our own personnel decisions. This team has all the pieces without a trade to contend, a trio of Nash-Kobe-Dwight with some decent role players mixed in (MWP, Meeks, Jamison, Hill), should at least be a top 5 team in the NBA. I feel like Jordan Hill can save our season. He has terrific games off the bench and great production in very limited minutes. If we gave Jordan Hill 36-40 minutes a game, he might put up very good numbers (maybe like 15 and 12). He brings constant energy, every team has that one guy who doesnt really dominate you but he does the little things to piss you off and help his team win. Hill is that guy for us.

 

Stop playing Gasol heavy minutes (or stop playing him at all), start giving Jamison some playing time, and actually learn to play defense. There is really nothing more Mitch can do as a GM, we have no assets to trade, no cap flexibility, and were definitely not firing and hiring another coach (Mike Brown is still getting paid millions to do nothing). And on top of all that, there isnt a team in the league who would be willing to help the Lakers right now, we would get screwed in any trade. Our only option is to stick with what we have. Unfortunately, I see MDA as too stubborn a coach to make these changes, in which case he will probably be fired at seasons end, and the team will probably beg Phil to come back.

[JYD]

No one really wants Gasol. Not at this stage in his career, his contract, etc. Not worthy of trading him at this point. Gasol isn't the only problem for the Lakers. Hell, he's not even the major problem.

 

The major problem, to me, is A. Lack of ball movement in the 4th quarter, and B. Defensively (especially in the paint).

 

They gave up far too many uncontested layups last night, and there were a few possessions where the ball didn't move. I remember one last night, where Metta World Peace had the ball on the wing at the 3 pt line for like 10-15 seconds and then he chucked up a contested 3 pointer. Not a single other person touched the ball on the possession!

[Nitro]

Gasol still has trade value. If you can trade T-Mac post-microfracture, Arenas, Rashard Lewis, and Joe Johnson, you can trade Pau. LA might not get a lot back in return, but he still has the talent to make an impact as a center on a number of other treams.

 

LA needs to get rid of Pau with a decent SF coming back via trade, fire D'Antoni, and sign Delonte West if he's still avaliable for the minimum. Basically the team as a whole needs to get more athletic and explosive at the 1-3.

[Real Deal]

I'll just post what I did last night, over at LakerNation.

 

1) Start Jordan Hill.

 

2) Trade Gasol for a defensive-minded player, or a decent offensive threat that can at least play defense better than 50% of the league.

 

3) Sign Delonte West after waiving one or two of our young players.

 

4) Since we basically have to keep D'Antoni, ask Kurt Rambis if he'll come in and help with our defensive woes.

 

5) Change the offense, slow the game down. Play combos of the "four out, one in" for Dwight, while installing triangle properties for Kobe. P&R mixed in for our bigs + Nash. Tell Nash to play off the ball more, instead of becoming useless every now and then.

 

Meanwhile, D'Antoni needs to sit the players down in the locker room, grab a marker, and write down projected minutes for every player, and also, set rotations for particular situations.

 

Stop shooting threes. Stop giving Ron Artest 10+ shots in a game. Force the penetrating guard to the baseline, not the paint. Come up and defend your man on the screen, no switches and no giving up open jumpers...you have a defensive anchor, so use him.

 

Also, if we're dealing Gasol (or if he's going to spend his time outside of the block, no matter what), then post Kobe up on the opposite side of Howard. Dwight doesn't have to have his back to the basket to be effective, so if a bit of room is needed, it's fine.

 

This team is old. They need to play like they are...not necessarily regarding effectiveness, but pace and strategy-wise. That is how teams like the dirt-old Dallas Mavericks beat the Miami Heat, and why a super-young Oklahoma City team loses to an older Miami Heat squad.

[Real Deal]

fire D'Antoni

I'd be amazed if that happened. I don't think Jim Buss will go that route, basically showing us that he was a fool for such a hire. It would also be our fourth coach in one season, which is unheard of.

[JYD]

Gasol still has trade value. If you can trade T-Mac post-microfracture, Arenas, Rashard Lewis, and Joe Johnson, you can trade Pau. LA might not get a lot back in return, but he still has the talent to make an impact as a center on a number of other treams.

 

LA needs to get rid of Pau with a decent SF coming back via trade, fire D'Antoni, and sign Delonte West if he's still avaliable for the minimum. Basically the team as a whole needs to get more athletic and explosive at the 1-3.

Gasol CAN be traded - sure. But, you're not going to get anything that's going to be more valuable than Pau himself. I saw how he played on Christmas Day (maybe it's a lack of motivation from this team?)....He's still a decent player and is not the main problem.

 

I highly doubt they'll fire D'Antoni. Maybe at season's end, but unless they lose like 10 in a row, they aren't making another change.

Edited January 7, 2013 by JYD

[NomarFachix]

http://i.imgur.com/zavYS.png

[Real Deal]

Just last week, Magic blamed Jim Buss...and part of that was because he didn't want to hire Phil Jackson.

 

He's just saying things to get attention. He's been doing it for a few years, now.

 

Until D'Antoni plays to Kobe and Howard's strengths, and stops trying to run this team around Steve Nash, we will continue to lose games. Kobe and Howard are superstars for a reason: almost ALL of their careers, they have been primary scorers AND are the guys that create for their teammates (Howard not getting credit in statsheets, of course, but he's the reason all of his teammates landed threes). Why does a 39-year old PG have the green light to not adjust, despite being a 50/40/90 shooter, and the two superstars have to change their games?

 

Defensively, it's pretty obvious why we aren't getting it done. We don't have a defensive system in place, and we have three horrific defenders (Nash, Gasol and Jamison) on this team.

[JYD]

Just last week, Magic blamed Jim Buss...and part of that was because he didn't want to hire Phil Jackson.

 

He's just saying things to get attention. He's been doing it for a few years, now.

 

Until D'Antoni plays to Kobe and Howard's strengths, and stops trying to run this team around Steve Nash, we will continue to lose games. Kobe and Howard are superstars for a reason: almost ALL of their careers, they have been primary scorers AND are the guys that create for their teammates (Howard not getting credit in statsheets, of course, but he's the reason all of his teammates landed threes). Why does a 39-year old PG have the green light to not adjust, despite being a 50/40/90 shooter, and the two superstars have to change their games?

 

Defensively, it's pretty obvious why we aren't getting it done. We don't have a defensive system in place, and we have three horrific defenders (Nash, Gasol and Jamison) on this team.

Jamison doesn't even play, does he? Lol.

 

And offensively, I don't really see the problem. They seem fine offensively to me. Sure, they could post Pau more, they could give it to D12 on the block more, and they could give Kobe some more iso's..there's only one basketball...but, in the end, the offense isn't even the problem IMO. They don't play consistent defense and they do not play hard consistently at all.

 

How did you expect them to play when they acquired Nash? He plays with the ball in his hands his entire career. What do they do with him? Lol

[Real Deal]

Jamison doesn't even play, does he? Lol.

 

And offensively, I don't really see the problem. They seem fine offensively to me. Sure, they could post Pau more, they could give it to D12 on the block more, and they could give Kobe some more iso's..there's only one basketball...but, in the end, the offense isn't even the problem IMO. They don't play consistent defense and they do not play hard consistently at all.

 

How did you expect them to play when they acquired Nash? He plays with the ball in his hands his entire career. What do they do with him? Lol

The offense is the problem when we're leaning on Kobe to drop 30+ a night and play 40+ minutes. Doesn't matter if we're 6th offensively, we're having to rely on Kobe to dig us out of holes OR keep us on top of teams during games.

 

Nash has had the ball in his hands his entire career...and so has Howard and Kobe. One is 39 years old and just came off of his worst statistical season in years. The other two...one has five championships as a primary option and main facilitator, the other has an NBA Finals appearance as THE GUY (the only guy) in an offense built specifically for a big man's dominance down low.

 

What else does Nash do, then? He shoots. Very well. Why isn't he shooting at all? He's too focused on running his offense here, and that's what's ruining us. It's hurting our team in that we wear down quicker, and Kobe having to do FAR too much is hurting him back on the defensive end late in games, and he's the guy that roams to help Nash and Gasol, two awful defenders.

 

If Nash can't adjust just slightly, to two superstar players who are CLEARLY better than he is...then he's not that great of a player after all. This isn't his team...never was, never will be. If he was the Nash of 2005, and we had a ton of shooters, and Kobe was either super-young or well out of his prime...then okay, let's go with it...but not now.

[Jenneral]

Stop blaming the coach... it's up to Kobe, Dwight, Pau, MWP, etc to start winning games. No excuse a team with Kobe and Dwight should be so shitty.

[Nitro]

Until D'Antoni plays to Kobe and Howard's strengths, and stops trying to run this team around Steve Nash, we will continue to lose games. Kobe and Howard are superstars for a reason: almost ALL of their careers, they have been primary scorers AND are the guys that create for their teammates (Howard not getting credit in statsheets, of course, but he's the reason all of his teammates landed threes). Why does a 39-year old PG have the green light to not adjust, despite being a 50/40/90 shooter, and the two superstars have to change their games?

 

Dwight needs to change his game, offensively, because he's the weakest of the Lakers' top 3 offensive players.

 

And IMO Nash has changed his game more than Kobe has this season. Kobe is shooting like it's 2006 despite having 3 others players who have been 18-20PPG scorers in the last few years. The team will not maximize its potential with Kobe being the primary facilitator and taking 25 shots a game. You mentioned Nash is coming off one of his worst statistical seasons of the last few years...well, so is Kobe. Bottom line is Nash has led like 7 #1 offenses in the league in his career (on 2 different teams), and he will be the guy that can get the most out of the role players. Kobe still needs plenty of PnR's/iso's himself, and Dwight should be getting more post touches, but the offense needs to run through Nash to be most effective.

[Real Deal]

Dwight needs to change his game, offensively, because he's the weakest of the Lakers' top 3 offensive players.

 

And IMO Nash has changed his game more than Kobe has this season. Kobe is shooting like it's 2006 despite having 3 others players who have been 18-20PPG scorers in the last few years. The team will not maximize its potential with Kobe being the primary facilitator and taking 25 shots a game. You mentioned Nash is coming off one of his worst statistical seasons of the last few years...well, so is Kobe. Bottom line is Nash has led like 7 #1 offenses in the league in his career (on 2 different teams), and he will be the guy that can get the most out of the role players. Kobe still needs plenty of PnR's/iso's himself, and Dwight should be getting more post touches, but the offense needs to run through Nash to be most effective.

How has Nash changed his game? All we want him to do is shoot more, to actually try and play off of the two superstar teammates he has never had before, and he's still trying to average 10 APG (since his return, he has) and shoot less than he did last season, when he was really the only guy that mattered in Phoenix.

 

Kobe is coming off his worst statistical year...and yet, it's not significant because he's having one of the best years he's ever had now.

 

Are you telling me that Nash shouldn't be taking all of those wide-open shots he has? I know you watch the games, at least some of them, and there are many times that Nash does absolutely nothing when he doesn't have the ball. I know guys like LeBron and Kobe are like that, sometimes, when they kick the ball out to the other side of the court, but they aren't exactly in Nash's position, either.

 

As a 50/40/90 shooter, and the third-best player on this team, Nash should be salivating over all of the shots he could have...but instead, we're forced into this system that changes Kobe and Dwight more than it would Nash, and that makes zero sense to me.

[Nitro]

How has Nash changed his game? All we want him to do is shoot more, to actually try and play off of the two superstar teammates he has never had before, and he's still trying to average 10 APG (since his return, he has) and shoot less than he did last season, when he was really the only guy that mattered in Phoenix.

 

Kobe is coming off his worst statistical year...and yet, it's not significant because he's having one of the best years he's ever had now.

 

Are you telling me that Nash shouldn't be taking all of those wide-open shots he has? I know you watch the games, at least some of them, and there are many times that Nash does absolutely nothing when he doesn't have the ball. I know guys like LeBron and Kobe are like that, sometimes, when they kick the ball out to the other side of the court, but they aren't exactly in Nash's position, either.

 

As a 50/40/90 shooter, and the third-best player on this team, Nash should be salivating over all of the shots he could have...but instead, we're forced into this system that changes Kobe and Dwight more than it would Nash, and that makes zero sense to me.

 

Of course he should be trying to average 10APG...he is playing next to one of the greatest scorers ever, arguably the best big man in the game, another former 20PPG scorer, and role players who can't create for themselves.

 

And his shot attempts are at their lowest since 99-00...I'd say that is a sacrifice. I also haven't noticed him in as many PnR's as he has been the last decade or so, and he is definitely still letting Kobe do more ballhandling/creating than he ever let Dirk/Amare/Marion/Johnson/Carter. Even since he's came back, he isn't the kind of focal point that he was in the past, while Kobe is having his first 30pt season since the Kwame/TRASH years.

 

So tell me, exactly who is sacrificing their game? I'd say Nash has gotten less reign then Kobe has.

 

Oh, and I do agree Nash should be shooting more...but he, or the offense isn't best suited for him to be a spot-up 3pt specialist. He, and the majority of his teammates are best suited for him playing PnR basketball, with him creating for himself and others.

[Real Deal]

The fact is, he and Dwight (and Gasol) aren't using the P&R. Kobe has to drop 30 a night. Do you think Kobe would be taking all of these shots if Nash was actually getting more jumpers in out of the P&R?

 

It's not a sacrifice, it's Nash just not wanting to shoot. He has passed up many shots, and it's mind-blowing. For no reason.

 

That's basically like someone saying that Gasol has sacrificed all of those years, not taking 15+ FGA/G...even in Memphis. No, he's just not aggressive...and now, when we need him the most, he finds a way to stand 18+ feet from the rim, and comments on how he's going to shoot more threes in this offense.

 

Nash may have found his way to 60+ wins in his offense, but he never touched the NBA Finals...and I'm not fond of building a team around a PG when we have a five-time champion and a center who demands doubles in the post.

 

One of our bigger problems is that we don't have shooters on this team. Nash is a shooter. It fills a need. A big need. Why isn't he filling that need?

 

Are you telling me that we need a facilitator at the PG position more than we need him as a shooter? I don't believe it. We have two that are successful at doing what they do, creating opportunities for their teammates just by being who they are. Nash comes in and changes that, and that's an issue.

 

This was going to be a problem from the start, and I smelled it once D'Antoni walked through the door. MDA doesn't like to post up players, he doesn't like to play through superstars, and there's one guy on this roster who has made him who he is today as a coach, and it's a 39-year old Nash.

 

I know you truly don't believe we should continue running with Nash dominating the ball like this. We could use more P&R, but that's really the ONLY thing he should be facilitating for...nothing else.