JYD Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Obviously everyone on the forum can participate in the discussion, but I was just wondering specifically what Laker fans think. Should they trade D12 right now? Yes. No. Wait right up until the deadline to see if they are in/out of playoff picture. Discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Absolutely not. He's still a top 10 player in the league, probably top 5 when healthy, and he's one of the only impactful 2-way bigs in the league. As a FA he will make the most money if he stays in LA, and LA will still probably be the most attractive destination for him (compared to a place like Atlanta, or Dallas). Take your chances and hold onto him, as he is one of the few, true franchise players that can lead your team to a title the next 4-5 seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted January 22, 2013 Owner Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 We won't get equal value for him, and because we are doing dreadfully bad, teams would rather just wait until the offseason to begin with. I'm sure there would be a few interested right now, but offers wouldn't be that great. He's the best center in the game, still. He's putting up his career averages, I believe (last time I looked). His FT shooting is as annoying as Shaq's (a bit worse, but yeah)...yet, we survived through that. He's unhappy right now because we have an offense that doesn't feature him, unfortunately. It requires Kobe and Dwight to adjust to Nash, not the other way around...and from the start, it wasn't going to work. This team is ignorant if they continue playing through it. But, it's whatever. I've said that a hundred times already. If Nash's little ass would settle for 6-7 assists a night, and become a shooter half of the time, playing off of two superstars who are better than he is AND two that attract more defensive attention, we'd be far better off on that end of the court. Kobe wouldn't be dead tired in the third quarter, we wound't give up breaks on long boards off of our missed threes, and Ron Artest wouldn't be our [expletive]ing second scoring option (like he is now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Kobe wouldn't be dead tired in the third quarter Kobe being dead tired has nothing to do with running the offense through Nash...it has to do with the 39MPG on 34 year-old legs (one who has 17 years and countless deep post-season runs, and a few Olympic appearances on his resume), while taking over 22 FGA's per game and recently taking tougher defensive assignments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JYD Posted January 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Kobe being dead tired has nothing to do with running the offense through Nash...it has to do with the 39MPG on 34 year-old legs (one who has 17 years and countless deep post-season runs, and a few Olympic appearances on his resume), while taking over 22 FGA's per game and recently taking tougher defensive assignments.Sums it up well... I go back and forth on the trading of Howard. I think ultimately it's too early to give in on the entire experiment because I'm not sure who the Lakers would be able to get in return and where they would go from here. Colin Cowherd was just making a case for trading D12 earlier in his show, but then he had Kurt Rambis on and I agree with him (and I think where Real Deal is coming from) -- D'Antoni has to adjust his system to fit this particular roster that includes several post up players, and an overall slower team. If D'Antoni fails to change, the Lakers will continue to fail. If he amends his system to run it more through Dwight and less through Nash, they should be far more efficient. But defensively, I'm not sure where they go from here. Are they too old/slow to compete with the OKC's and LAC's from a defensive standpoint? I think it's fair to come to that judgment. But, they also have Dwight who should be anchoring the paint far more than he has this season, and Kobe's defense (don't watch every game to be fair) has been mediocre at best. I just think it's interesting because if D'Antoni continues not to change his system, and make a serious commitment to his team playing defense, does he get fired, or do they trade Gasol, Howard, or both? Very interesting breaking it down and hearing all the different sides to it ... I'm kind of in the middle, I could see LAL going in several different directions and having a hard time disagreeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted January 22, 2013 Owner Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Kobe being dead tired has nothing to do with running the offense through Nash...it has to do with the 39MPG on 34 year-old legs (one who has 17 years and countless deep post-season runs, and a few Olympic appearances on his resume), while taking over 22 FGA's per game and recently taking tougher defensive assignments.He wouldn't need to score 30 a night, 40 minutes a night, if we actually had an offense that played through him AND Dwight Howard. Double-post motion, or the four-out, one in...whatever it could be, it needs to be something that uses our second superstar AND Nash's shooting abilities, so Kobe isn't dragging his feet. You guys can praise the offense all you want, but it's no good. Howard isn't getting touchesRon Artest is our second scoring optionNash isn't shooting the ballGasol is not in the postKobe is forced to average 30 The offense sucks, don't care how many points per 100 possessions we score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 He wouldn't need to score 30 a night, 40 minutes a night, if we actually had an offense that played through him AND Dwight Howard. Double-post motion, or the four-out, one in...whatever it could be, it needs to be something that uses our second superstar AND Nash's shooting abilities, so Kobe isn't dragging his feet. You guys can praise the offense all you want, but it's no good. Howard isn't getting touchesRon Artest is our second scoring optionNash isn't shooting the ballGasol is not in the postKobe is forced to average 30 The offense sucks, don't care how many points per 100 possessions we score. The offense doesn't suck...it's not utilizing the team's strengths to the fullest, but top 5-6 in the league (last time I checked a few days ago) is far from awful. And they don't need to utilize Kobe any more offensively...no matter the coach, system or Nash's presence, he's been doing way too much this season. Sometimes it's necessary for him to take 20+ shots, but his usage has been far too high this season (just like the previous 2 seasons where he led the league in USG%.). I'd much rather see his minutes and shot attempts get cut and him continue to put in a stronger effort defensively. Him taking 20+ shot attempts just ain't working anymore, and his efficiency has fallen off the cliff. He's still getting plenty of iso's and PnR opportunities...you act like Nash has made him into Steve Novak. Top 10 offense, bottom 10 defense. FIx the latter, and you got a dangerous playoff team. Not enough to beat the top 3 out West, but far better than 17-24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted January 22, 2013 Owner Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 ? Where did you get all of that? The offense doesn't suck...it's not utilizing the team's strengths to the fullest, but top 5-6 in the league (last time I checked a few days ago) is far from awful. Again, that is just scoring points per 100. It's not utilizing ANYONE'S strengths to the fullest, and that's why it sucks. We are 25th in turnovers. We are 15th in 3PT shooting, 14th in assists, usually 10th or worse in FG% (rarely see us above that), 29th in free throw makes. If it wasn't for us scoring so many points, at a high pace (2nd in the NBA in pace), our offense wouldn't be 8th in the NBA right now (in Offensive Rating, by the way). There's more to it than just an offensive rating. Chris Duhon has the second-highest offensive rating on our team, next to Steve Nash. Jordan Hill is fourth, Earl Clark is 5th. That's laughable. I don't really give a shit what an offensive rating says...our offense is not that great. And they don't need to utilize Kobe any more offensively...no matter the coach, system or Nash's presence, he's been doing way too much this season. Sometimes it's necessary for him to take 20+ shots, but his usage has been far too high this season (just like the previous 2 seasons where he led the league in USG%.). I'd much rather see his minutes and shot attempts get cut and him continue to put in a stronger effort defensively. Him taking 20+ shot attempts just ain't working anymore, and his efficiency has fallen off the cliff. I stated that the offense needed to run through Dwight more so Kobe wouldn't have to play 40 minutes a night and score 30+ a game. We will play through Kobe regardless, but Dwight has to be involved FAR more. He's still getting plenty of iso's and PnR opportunities...you act like Nash has made him into Steve Novak. When did I say this? I stated that Kobe is having to play far too many minutes, and score too many points. I have no idea where you assumed I said he was turning into Steve Novak in that post. Top 10 offense, bottom 10 defense. FIx the latter, and you got a dangerous playoff team. Not enough to beat the top 3 out West, but far better than 17-24. We're the Lakers, not the Nuggets. We don't play for early playoff exits. You aren't dangerous if you're losing in the second round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Regime Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 D'Antoni is too stubborn to change his ways. He's already been asked a couple times whether he would adjust the system to fit the roster, but he hasn't budged a single step. The direction we go with Howard really comes down to managements stance on D'Antoni. If we're really going to stick with him for the long haul then it doesn't make sense to hold onto a guy who we cant utilize effectively. And just from reading Dwight's body language I'm not liking our chances of resigning Dwight if D'Antoni comes back for another season. Obviously we aren't going to get something of equal value but right now I don't give a shit, it's better than losing him to free agency. Kobe might playing his last season next year, the last thing I want is a rebuild type season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted January 22, 2013 Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Again, that is just scoring points per 100. It's not utilizing ANYONE'S strengths to the fullest, and that's why it sucks. We are 25th in turnovers. We are 15th in 3PT shooting, 14th in assists, usually 10th or worse in FG% (rarely see us above that), 29th in free throw makes. If it wasn't for us scoring so many points, at a high pace (2nd in the NBA in pace), our offense wouldn't be 8th in the NBA right now (in Offensive Rating, by the way). There's more to it than just an offensive rating. Chris Duhon has the second-highest offensive rating on our team, next to Steve Nash. Jordan Hill is fourth, Earl Clark is 5th. That's laughable. I don't really give a shit what an offensive rating says...our offense is not that great. 1) You guys are 4th in FT makes, 1st in FTA. 29th in FT%, but that amount of free throws is still a positive. 2) Because of being a pretty good 3pt shooting team, and taking that volume, the offense is more efficient at producing points than at first glance of raw stats. 3) Lakers are 8th in offensive rebounding, which counter-balances the awful turnover numbers. 4) Pace is number of possessions, which is what Ortg accounts for. Pace would be a good arguement against the Lakers' good Ortg if they were doing a ton of damage in transition, but they are bottom 5 in turnovers forced. I stated that the offense needed to run through Dwight more so Kobe wouldn't have to play 40 minutes a night and score 30+ a game. We will play through Kobe regardless, but Dwight has to be involved FAR more. Agreed. Although, his high turnovers, career-low FT% and limited repetoire in the post makes it a bit hard at times to make him the focal point in the offense. When he was with Orlando he didn't get a ton more opportunities, and he was more of a decoy for their 3pt shooting gameplan as opposed to the other way around. Lakers would be able to utilize that gameplan more if Gasol didn't clog the paint, and/or suck on the perimeter. When did I say this? I stated that Kobe is having to play far too many minutes, and score too many points. I have no idea where you assumed I said he was turning into Steve Novak in that post. You make it seem through your posts the last few days that the offense is running completely around Nash, and in your first post you said that the offense needs to run through Kobe and Dwight, hinting that it hasn't run through Kobe all along. If I assumed wrong, sorry. We're the Lakers, not the Nuggets. We don't play for early playoff exits. You aren't dangerous if you're losing in the second round. Well, with this current roster and coaching, you are currently playing for a high lottery pick that I'm sure you guys don't even have the rights to. Improve the defense and you guys are at least a playoff team. Add a few small, low-risk/high-reward pieces (like Miami did with Birdman) to improve the bench and give the team a little more balance, and suddenly you guys can become dangerous. A major trade would be needed to be a true contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomarFachix Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 The Lakers suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNotoriousBANG Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 the lakers would not even win the NCAA tournament elite 8 at best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) No, we cant trade Dwight. No team is going to offer a significant package for him in the final year of his contract, and you can be damn sure Dwight aint signing no extension til the offseason. We are stuck with him, for better or worse. If we could somehow get a good package for him, id definitely consider trading him. If we could get a package like Marc Gasol and Rudy Gay, bye bye Dwight. We would have to get a center back in return, and preferably a good defensive center. However nobodys offering that for a Dwight rental, and a not even 100 % Dwight. Edited January 24, 2013 by kingfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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