YugoRocketsFan Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) Shane Battier is overrated defensively, he has fallen off big time. Edited February 23, 2010 by YugoRocketsFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) I'll re-work that post and add all-stars into the mix, some borderline all-stars (like Danny Granger). If LeBron had to hold Granger all by himself an entire game, Granger would light him up...but if it were Shane Battier or Bruce Bowen on Granger, it would be a different story (the younger Battier and Bowen, obviously). I'll say this much: if it were the last shot of a game, the attempted game-winner, and you knew Paul Pierce was going to stop at that elbow and take a jumper...would LeBron be that one guy you'd consider putting on him if you had a choice out of everyone in the NBA? Would he be a top five? Josh Smith, Gerald Wallace, Ron Artest, Kirk Hinrich, Aaron Afflalo, Shane Battier, Eric Gordon, Kobe Bryant, Brandon Roy, Ronnie Brewer...all of those guys are better man-to-man defensive players than LeBron James, and I may have left some out.Because on-ball defense is the only form of defense. Besides, where is this reputation coming from that LeBron is a poor man-to-man defender? He's improved substantially in that area every season, and this year I can legitimately call him an elite defender overall. In that scenario, on one play, I'd actually be more inclined to take my chances with LeBron. If he's focused on getting one last stop, there is not a player more physically capable than he is, and he can recover better than any player in the league. And just for the record, the last time LeBron checked Granger one-on-one for the entire game, he held him to 4 points, 2/7 shooting. Edited February 23, 2010 by His Greatness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfish Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Lebron is no defensive stopper, or Melo would not have gone wild like he did the other night. Plus he always refuses to guard the best player or guy with the hot hand thats killing his team, go to any Cavs forum theyll tell you that. It was Rashard Lewis last year in the Eastern Conference Finals, . This year its been Stephen Jackson, and Melo, so far, cause 4 of their losses are from them those 2 teams if im not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Because on-ball defense is the only form of defense. Besides, where is this reputation coming from that LeBron is a poor man-to-man defender? He's improved substantially in that area every season, and this year I can legitimately call him an elite defender overall. In that scenario, on one play, I'd actually be more inclined to take my chances with LeBron. If he's focused on getting one last stop, there is not a player more physically capable than he is, and he can recover better than any player in the league. And just for the record, the last time LeBron checked Granger one-on-one for the entire game, he held him to 4 points, 2/7 shooting. I guess you didn't watch the Denver game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted February 23, 2010 Owner Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 And just for the record, the last time LeBron checked Granger one-on-one for the entire game, he held him to 4 points, 2/7 shooting.Wasn't that the game LeBron was held to 4/12 shooting by Danny? But yeah, what happened the game before that, back in Cleveland in November? I believe it was Granger who dropped 33 on LeBron, shot almost 60% from the floor, and almost beat the Cavs at home. Granger scored 38 on him, also, back in April of 2009. Kobe shot 33% against the Knicks about a month ago. Just one game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YugoRocketsFan Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Wasn't that the game LeBron was held to 4/12 shooting by Danny? But yeah, what happened the game before that, back in Cleveland in November? I believe it was Granger who dropped 33 on LeBron, shot almost 60% from the floor, and almost beat the Cavs at home. Granger scored 38 on him, also, back in April of 2009. Kobe shot 33% against the Knicks about a month ago. Just one game. You should see how the amazing Granger played vs Rockets 2 games ago, when they won 125-115, Granger had 36 points and shot 75%, yes vs the Ariza, Battier "defensive" duo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Lebron is no defensive stopper, or Melo would not have gone wild like he did the other night. Plus he always refuses to guard the best player or guy with the hot hand thats killing his team, go to any Cavs forum theyll tell you that. It was Rashard Lewis last year in the Eastern Conference Finals, . This year its been Stephen Jackson, and Melo, so far, cause 4 of their losses are from them those 2 teams if im not mistaken.I guess you didn't watch the Denver game.Carmelo was on fire, and it would've been tough for any defender to stop him that night. Also, it was one game. If one game is enough to sully a player's reputation as a defender, then there would be no elite defensive players in the NBA. Wasn't that the game LeBron was held to 4/12 shooting by Danny? But yeah, what happened the game before that, back in Cleveland in November? I believe it was Granger who dropped 33 on LeBron, shot almost 60% from the floor, and almost beat the Cavs at home. Granger scored 38 on him, also, back in April of 2009. Kobe shot 33% against the Knicks about a month ago. Just one game.... and in another game that year, Granger scored 16 on 28%, and this season Granger is averaging 16 PPG, 29% against Cleveland. But my question is this: did LeBron actually guard Granger the entire night by himself in all those games? Because on that 4-point game he did, and did a damn good job shutting him down. You said this:If LeBron had to hold Granger all by himself an entire game, Granger would light him up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted February 23, 2010 Owner Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 So you just said that "it was one game" when someone gave you what Melo did against LeBron, but then you gave me one game when LeBron held Granger in check? And yes, LeBron did defend Granger in all of those games in 2008-09, including the two you gave me. LeBron is not the best defensive player in the NBA. Do you think he is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
His Greatness Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) So you just said that "it was one game" when someone gave you what Melo did against LeBron, but then you gave me one game when LeBron held Granger in check?The difference is, I'm not citing a single game to prove or disprove his defensive ability. That's not how defense is gauged, not even close. I picked that game out to disprove what you said about how Granger would always light LeBron up as if it were fact. I probably approached it wrong by flatly citing the 4 points, but I remember that game and it was truly a defensive clinic put on by LeBron. LeBron is not the best defensive player in the NBA. Do you think he is?What? No, I never even implied it. Edited February 23, 2010 by His Greatness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted February 23, 2010 Owner Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 The difference is, I'm not citing a single game to prove or disprove his defensive ability. That's not how defense is gauged, not even close. I picked that game out to disprove what you said about how Granger would always light LeBron up as if it were fact. I probably approached it wrong by flatly citing the 4 points, but I remember that game and it was truly a defensive clinic put on by LeBron.Well, then my question lies with the two games I cited from that season. Why didn't LeBron lock him up then? I actually remember one of those highlights, when he was shooting on LeBron, and one of the guys on NBATV was saying how "Batman should've been an all-star." I believe that was in the April game. The November game was when LeBron was supposed to come out and give that defensive stand, and he failed to do so. It's the big reason why he focused all of his attention on Granger in that December game you produced, but his offense suffered from it. Cleveland has a solid defensive unit, one of the best defensive teams in the league. They can take away the drive, and that's not only due to LeBron James. Granger is a shooter, but he does take it to the rim sometimes. Stick LeBron in Washington, no Haywood...and I really don't think he does as good against someone like Granger in that game you gave me, because nobody is behind James to stop the drive. Same thing goes for Ray Allen, when he's defending Bryant. I wouldn't expect Kobe to drive in with Perkins and Garnett (a healthy Garnett) in the game, so when people look at the game and say, "Wow, Ray Allen is forcing Kobe into all of those shots," I think most of us know better than that. I truly think LeBron's defense has improved as well. I've stated that before, actually. I just don't think his on-ball defense is as good as people are making it out to be. He's a juiced Shannon Brown. His athleticism makes it super easy to block shots and steal passes, but against scorers, he finds his feet glued to the floor sometimes, on jumpers or drives, and that's why there are games where he decides not to defend those type of players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Finest - Yes there is a reason why James is getting some DPOY talk. It's easier to defend when you're rarely called for a foul. Bron has improved as a defender, but he hacks for steals and blocks and doesn't get called. Allows him to be far more aggressive knowing the refs won't whistle him. Wade has improved his defense is an active defender, and he gets 35% more calls against him than Bron? Seriously? Kobe isn't even defending anybody, he's an off-ball rover overgambling for steals and he has 50% more calls against him than Bron? lol. James is easily, blatantly, the most protected player in the league, it's not remotely close. Which makes his whining about no calls patently absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobe24 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36nT2osudy0 Edited February 23, 2010 by Kobe24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36nT2osudy0Ugh every time I see that video I just hate Lebron even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) Classic no calls for LeBron http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tarzvkclaY Edited February 23, 2010 by Cleveland's Finest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Classic no calls for LeBron http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tarzvkclaYThat's one... youtube is filled with videos of Lebron getting bogus calls his way. Very rarely will you find a video of Lebron not getting a call. Also, there was a bit of acting on his part in that video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 lol @ him acting like he was really hurt @ the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Coming from a guy who trashes LeBron continually that comment doesn't have much credibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Coming from a guy who trashes LeBron continually that comment doesn't have much credibility.Me? I definitely don't trash Lebron frequently. Let's not forget how I spoke very highly of him in response to that Big Chief Triangle guy who was just ripping on Lebron constantly. He's an amazing player, but gets away with a lot of calls and a lot of calls are made his way. There is simply no denying that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog17k Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36nT2osudy0 I remember that, pissed me off so much. Pietrus gets a clean block too, glad refs did their jobs that time. And LeBron wanted one for that too... I really can't believe some of the calls he gets, it's pretty pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Me? I definitely don't trash Lebron frequently. Let's not forget how I spoke very highly of him in response to that Big Chief Triangle guy who was just ripping on Lebron constantly. He's an amazing player, but gets away with a lot of calls and a lot of calls are made his way. There is simply no denying that. Lol...not you, Flash.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWaLL Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Lol...not you, Flash....Oh lol alright my bad, sorry about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Coming from a guy who trashes LeBron continually that comment doesn't have much credibility. Believe it or not LeBron's the only player I respect on the Cavs along with Shaq. There's just no denying he gets away with more than anyone in the league. My hate for him comes mostly from my hate for his boys Mo Williams and Verejao. Not to mention I'm not a dance of the whole dancing thing but that's about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravenewworld Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 Not a huge LBJ fan myself. I will never deny his talent, but right now i view him more as a product then a player. Some of these no-calls are absolutely ridiculous btw and is the reason why i will take a bad NCAA game over a good NBA game any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted February 24, 2010 Report Share Posted February 24, 2010 (edited) Tayshaun Prince, Andrei Kirilenko, Mickael Pietrus, Trenton Hassell, Shawn Marion, and Trevor Ariza. So yeah, LeBron is not the man you want to stick on your enemy's first option.Wow. You are the first non-Wolves fan to say that Hassell is a defender. Edited February 24, 2010 by Lone Wolf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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