Real Deal

He grabbed the referee's arm...that's a fine.

OTR isn't a place to spill your racist jokes. There are other message boards for that, so off you go.

Welcome to the best. Show off some of your GFX work...I'm curious to see how good you are. We used to have a GFX team of about 16 guys before a couple of sites opened up and stole 75% of them, haha...and most of them were amazing.

It's great to be optimistic, but most want to call it like they see it. Few see Minnesota doing much with what they have. It takes a while to recover after losing someone like Garnett, especially when the trade ended up being a ripoff. It doesn't help that one of your top picks couldn't make it over here for a few years, because if he was here now, people would have higher hopes for the Wolves. It's asking a lot more from Ridnour, a guy who has scored around 10 PPG his entire career, shot around 41-42% for most of it. In Minny, he'll need to score more, shoot 45% or better, and throw seven or eight assists per, all while doing this in an offense he'll need to facilitate...so, more or less, a 2005 Kobe Bryant role. That is, unless Beas and Johnson (and Love) all start scoring the ball effectively while finding a balance. Is it possible? Most definitely. Is it likely? I don't think so. With the talent, they should be a 45-win team...but lack of defense, no discipline in the offense, rotational issues and lack of true size (relying on Darko is not going to work out for them), it's just something you have to expect before a game is even played. The Heat are in a different boat. I can predict that they will be a top team in the East because James and Wade are true superstars, and Bosh is an all-star. They will win 50+ on talent alone, especially when those players were winning that many games with their own teams. But out West, I don't see very many teams challenging the Wolves (if that makes sense) for that 15th spot. Sacramento has Evans, Cousins and Landry. The Clippers have Griffin, Gordon, Baron and Kaman. Pending injuries, those two teams should win more games.

In the East, it'll be the Raptors. They look like they'll be playing city rec basketball the entire season, give me the ball and let my parents watch me score basketball, lol. In the West, Minnesota. The rotations are weird, the players won't learn the offense, Beasley and Johnson's roles may be too big right now, and Rambis isn't exactly the coach you want to bring in for this type of team. Minny needs Rubio, badly.

Cool. More power to the East, please.

That's actually a good point...didn't think of that. And I wouldn't be quick to say that's not Rondo's reasoning behind it, unless there's proof of it, lol. I wouldn't be surprised, especially the way Boston has been complaining about the refs over the last couple of seasons.

Manu seems to think Tony Parker is underrated at the point guard position. He says that he won his first ring at 19 years old, has three total, was the Finals MVP for the last one, and has been a major contributor to a Spurs team that has 11-consecutive 50+ win seasons (he was a part of nine). Underrated point guard? Where do you rank him on the top ten list?

When did I put words into your mouth? LeBron won the last two MVP's. If we're going to talk about players being superstars, we should probably stick to what they've done over the last season or two, not what they were doing in 3-5 years ago, or else Tim Duncan makes the list. Then there's no point in using the stats, because they were, by far, the two best defensive players on the team. ORTG makes similar mistakes. According to ORTG numbers, four other Lakers are higher than Bryant..and one is Sasha Vujacic. Two years ago, Channing Frye was ranked above Roy in DRTG...and I'm a better defender than Frye. Last season's Suns, Robin Lopez was fifth...under Channing Frye and Amare Stoudemire. Dudley was seventh. I've seen Kobe, LeBron and Wade all struggle when Roy switches over to defend them in spurts, and I've seen it happen to Kobe more than those two because I've watched every Lakers game since I can remember. He is in no way, shape or form your average defensive player. Taking DRTG and allowed EFG% numbers to support a player's defensive abilities is like taking a bench player's PPG in garbage time, and multiplying it by four to see how many he would average if he were a starter. If we go back to those DRTG numbers, they even show that Kevin Durant is a better defender than both Kobe and Artest, and that he's nearly as good as LeBron...which is something you probably don't agree with, just like saying Kobe was a better defensive player than Jordan ever was, since Kobe's best DRTG was a 98, and Jordan never found his way under 100 in his entire career. No, watching the players play basketball is.

They banned Nike and other types of headbands, also, just years ago. All headbands have to be sponsored by the NBA. If you aren't wearing the logo, you aren't wearing the band (if I recall correctly).

Well...in the NBA Finals, the home team is 20-6 (26 series) since the 2-3-2 format was put into play (1985). There have been four seven-game series, and the home team has won all four. That's also dipping into the assumption that home court advantage in the Finals isn't actually an advantage...but, as you can see, it is.

My bad...four championships in six seasons. Or five (according to Poe) in six. Without playing a preseason game. You know what I was getting to...but as usual, it's one of those "We are the hated, we are the victims" mindsets, and a good way to drill that into everyone's skulls is to take everything people say with offense. Two games in, Wade scores his 30 and it's like the Heat, while LeBron scores his 30 and it's like the Cavs. Funny stuff...but would a Heat fan find that funny? Hellllll no, it's offensive, and it's WRONG, because the Heat WILL be better, the Heat ARE underrated. If you guys blew the Celtics out, then destroyed the Sixers by 40, you guys would most certainly be smiling from ear to ear, bragging about how badass your team is and how you guys are already too dangerous, and this is all based on the fact that five of OTR's Heat fans (including you) predicted four or five titles in the next six seasons, on September 27th. You really have no idea how excited Boston haters were to see them beat the Heat in that first game, and it's not all because of LeBron and Bosh, and it has absolutely nothing to do with success because, the fact is, there has been no success to hate on. No need to hover over a minor joke that, really, should never offend anyone...probably because it's accurate after those two games (and basketball analysts already stated the Heat look like the old Cavs team), so I don't know why there are vultures over my post.

LeBron James let up 50% EFG to his counterpart at the SF position. Ron Artest let up 49% EFG allowed. Gerald Wallace? 52% EFG allowed. Steve Nash? 47% EFG allowed...lol. Durant? 48% EFG allowed (better than Artest, LeBron and Wallace). You really want to use those stats? They are pretty irrelevant...good way to tell how well a player's five-man unit defends on the court, because it doesn't account for all the times players are screened off their man, or how many times they don't defend their position (but we've been over this before). And I never said Roy was having MVP seasons. I'm not interested in comparing his stats to Bryant's 35 PPG season. My entire point is, a player that is more complete than another should be considered a superstar if the other (Durant) is considered an MVP candidate, with one 50-win season and a first-round playoff loss where he played like utter crap. I gave you that, and you had the excuse for it, and completely turned the discussion into, "Does Brandon Roy average 30 or throw 10 assists?" Suddenly, Roy is required to do that, or have a more dominating performance than 27/5/3 against those Rockets in the playoffs. Your mind is made up...that's your criteria. Roy has won 50 games (twice), put up an impressive performance against two dominating defenders at once, plays better defense than you give him credit for, puts up starting all-star statistics with efficiency (which is what you're always praising), and has claims from both Bryant and Artest that he's the toughest player to play against in the league. He would average 25+ if he wanted the ball in his hands at all times (not like he can't take over games and drop 40-50 points). Stick a scoring point guard in that starting role (instead of Miller and Blake), and Roy starts producing those scoring numbers. You say Dirk is a superstar because he has had multiple 50-win seasons and went to the Finals? Well, today, Karl Malone is a superstar for the same reason. Last season, I didn't see Dirk leading the league in scoring (two years ago, he was putting up around 23 PPG, actually), and I'm pretty sure he gave a similar performance to Roy's in the playoffs. Your criteria, I guess.

Brockman? He's a fouling machine. His defensive numbers weren't that impressive when you consider the fact he was defending bench players and playing just 12 minutes a game (because he couldn't stop anyone without fouling them). In fact, they weren't that impressive, anyway...even if he was defending starters. Not that great of a help defender, either...not that he fouls anyone, he doesn't get to the slasher in time. Very good work on the glass, though...but I'm not going to call him a good defensive player, or else I'd be calling Danny Fortson one. He'd average probably eight or nine boards a game if he were playing starter minutes, and fighting for boards against guys like Odom and Gasol, but he can't stay on the floor long enough, or produce against all-stars the way he can vs. deep bench players. I distinctly remember Millsap's game against the Kings last season, where he completely OBLITERATED Brockman. He put up 32/14/7 and Brockman picked up five fouls in 12 minutes, didn't score a point, didn't do much of anything but get embarrassed, and they made fun of him on SportsCenter while showing how bad Millsap raped the Kings. In 52 games, he played 20 or more minutes just nine times, 30+ just twice (and all he did was rebound in both games, go 2-9 shooting in one). In those nine games, he had under four fouls in just two of them. If he contributes enough to be noticed, I'll eat crow...but I'm pretty sure I won't need to.

Ariza is a 3rd or 4th option scorer, top-notch defensive player. The more you ask him to score, the worse his defense gets throughout the season, and his shooting percentages will dip. Spot-up shooter that can defend the perimeter...that's Ariza. Nothing more. That's why he's a champion on the Lakers, and on two other teams since 2008.

...it was a joke. But I think many should've been saying that to themselves when they decided to tell us all they would win seven consecutive titles before one summer league game, but I digress.

I'd like to know how many times he passed the ball in these first two games, compared to how many times (on average) he passed the ball last season for the Cavaliers. Not assists, but passes in general.

Miami will play like the 2009 Cavs when they play teams like Boston. Then they'll revert back to the 2009 Heat when they play someone like the Sixers. I figured them out after two games.

My problem is that you're dismissing what he does defensively, and you're asking him to score 30 a game or throw 10 assists. Yet, you consider Howard a superstar. I just don't agree with superstars being incredibly bad on the defensive end. Nash is. Dirk is probably an underrated defender because people say he's just as bad as Nash, but he's still a poor defender. The consensus was out about Durant being a 30 PPG scorer that rebounded well, and did everything else average or poor...no defense, no passing or playmaking ability...yet, he's an MVP candidate because his team won 50 games? I don't buy that. Durant is a superstar, though, and Roy is a better overall player. Roy should be considered a superstar. Give him a Gasol, and he's in the WCF, and people start calling him a superstar (for some reason). 23 PPG, 5 RPG, 5 APG, 48% FG and 38% 3PT, 1.9 TO and only 1.6 PF, 54 wins, with 27/5/3 on 46% FG against Artest and Battier in the playoffs...if that's not a superstar's numbers, I don't know what is. Everyone makes a big deal about what players do against great defensive teams in the postseason, and Houston was 3rd or 4th ranked, defensively, with a healthy Yao as well (and Mutombo off the bench). Roy should've been shut down, but he wasn't. A healthy Roy beats the Suns in the first round last April, and I doubt we'd be talking about this right now...and if that's what it would take to change your opinion on him, well, I just don't get it, because his 2008-09 season should've already done it.

Do I have to elaborate? Good job, everyone. Let's sustain it as long as we can.

Probably? You can't ever consider him a superstar, because he never got out of the first round, unless I'm missing something here. I just remember you saying how McGrady was in the same boat as Kobe, at one point...and this is a Kobe that missed the playoffs in 2005 and had first-round exits in 2006 and 2007. In his last two seasons, despite injuries, he has led his team to a couple of 50+ win seasons. How is Durant a superstar, if he has one 50-win season and a first-round exit, and poor stats in that first round against none other than Ron Artest, the same guy Roy lit up?

That'll be the issue they'll carry with them throughout the season, really. Battier and Martin looked like they played good defense on Bryant last night, but that's only because Kobe started 1-5, and he's barely getting lift on his jumpers. Tonight, a healthy backcourt duo dropped 71 on Houston's backcourt. It's concerning, even with Yao out. I doubt Lowry would've done much more to stop Curry or Ellis.

Game over.

The Rockets have more problems than just missing Yao and Lowry.

Monta is playing like the 2005 Kobe right now. And some of those fouls, lol...come on. That last foul on Monta made me laugh.