Real Deal

What Steve was saying was that the Suns and the Knicks are in the same boat, and the Suns actually have Steve Nash. Nobody on the Knicks is even close to that kind of player. Amare to New York, leaving Phoenix (a 50-win team) with Steve Nash Melo to New Jersey, leaving Denver (a 50-win team) with Chauncey Billups And you can say it's about the money, but it's not. If Melo waits, he'll likely lose 30-35% of what he COULD make, if he stays with Denver (or signs the extension before the free agency period begins). Also, Amare left the Suns because they weren't going to guarantee all six years that they could offer him. Phoenix guaranteed three or four of those years, and Amare went to the Knicks for a five-year contract, all guaranteed. Not necessarily more money, because Phoenix was his original team and could offer the most due to Bird Rights...but the five years of guaranteed money SUPPOSEDLY did the trick. Not like the Suns would've bought him out after the third year, though...so I think there's more to it than just money. The contract from Phoenix would've included a clause that guarantees the remaining years based solely on the number of minutes Amare logs during the first three years. For some reason, Amare dodged that. A big part of why Melo is leaving is because of Lala, wanting to be out in/near Los Angeles, or out east. Denver is also sitting on some old talent, as mentioned, with Billups, K-Mart, and Andersen all aging quicker than ever, Karl struggling to stay in the game (coaching, of course) and a selfish JR Smith as his running mate.

...because he's not going to give Denver an opportunity to get anything out of a deal, and it's very clear he's seeking that because, in becoming a free agent, he's losing money. He's got a bad taste in his mouth, for some reason, for the organization. Pretend he's a Knick, and he's threatening this garbage, and you know he wants to play for Denver. You would feel pretty pissed off at this. Golden State is willing to give up a little to bring him in, even without the contract guarantee (rumor, at least). I would just tell the Warriors, "Sure, let's make it happen. Give us a first-round pick, and that's it. Simple as that." Then plan your future without Melo ahead of time, today, instead of being forced to wait until July 2011, when he takes a walk and never looks back.

That's definitely not true, at all. Drew was trash that game, and we were down by 12 when Drew was subbed out for Lamar (third quarter, 7:43) and Drew never returned after that. Bryant scored 14 points and pulled down 7 rebounds after that, and Gasol scored 13 points and pulled down 8 boards. Artest was a defensive monster, and both Fisher and Odom came up big as well. From 7:43 in the 3rd quarter (down 12) until the rest of the game, Bynum sat the bench...and we rallied to win the game without him logging a single second. Drew didn't do anything...18 minutes, two points, six rebounds, no assists (because he NEVER passes out of the post), no blocks, pathetic help and on-ball defense. We won Game 7 because of our superstar, our all-star and our defense.

Closet Cavaliers fan, now. Hope they win 60 games (ha)...but no, seriously, I hope they do.

Cool. I hope they fix the new CBA to screw him over with about 30-35% less money, and one less season on his contract. Plus, if I were running the Nuggets' organization, I would instruct George Karl to bench him the entire season. You'll get a decent draft pick out of him leaving, at least.

Honestly, I was never going to watch this card. For one, unless Brock is beating Mir's face in, I won't pay the money to watch Mir fight. I absolutely HATE him. And I think Mir has a better chance against Cro Cop, although I'm not going to say I think he'll win it (is the fight even on yet?). As for the other guys...I'm not a UFC fan as much as I am an NBA fan, maybe even NFL...so my knowledge isn't up to par with yours, and I'm usually just interested in the big-name fights. I find out more about guys like Sonnen once I hear he's fighting someone like Silva.

Well, he's 0-3 over the last three seasons. This should probably be his last shot. We'll see how many of the 82 games he plays, and just how healthy he is for the playoffs.

It doesn't necessarily have to be for a center. Gasol plays 37% of the team's minutes distributed at center (so about 18 a game?) and Drew hasn't really been that healthy in the NBA Finals in three seasons, yet we've won two of those three. I actually wouldn't have been opposed to the Lakers trying to deal Drew for Melo. Odom is still a capable starter at the four, Caracter looks promising, and Gasol is really an excellent center. But, aside from WHO, I wouldn't mind the Lakers exploring trades. Three knee surgeries. It's a problem.

Merged five topics...just keep all Melo talk in here or in one of the team forums, please...but try and keep it in one topic, whichever forum you post in. Now, if the trade DOES go down, and it's official, post a new topic.

Yeah, LeBron is a more complete player. Durant has better on-ball defense, LeBron help defense, and I still think it's a toss-up as to who the better scorer is. Durant the better shooter, LeBron better at finishing. Passing and running a team? That's James, by far. So, it's not THAT big of a gap...but it's clear for now. What a stud.

Pissed that he didn't get the surgery earlier, but it's whatever. More playing time for Caracter at the beginning of the season. Dude is a monster.

Yeah, I read it. It also doesn't mean that the trio are worse, and because we are talking about a team sport, my argument trumps yours. My apologies. Cool, be a smartass about it. 1) James: 31.19 2) Wade: 28.10 3) Durant: 26.23 4) Bosh: 17.7 5) Duncan: 24.79 6) Howard: 24.07 7) Paul: 23.74 8) Oden: 21.9 9) Nowitzki: 23.01 10) Gasol: 22.97 11) Stoudemire: 22.69 12) Ginobili: 22.54 13) Anthony: 22.29 14) Lee: 22.28 15) Bryant: 21.95 23) Williams: 20.62 30) Garnett: 19.51 (highest Celtic) 41) Rose: 18.69 (under Arenas and Beaubois, by the way) Yeah, let's use PER stats to see how good players are. Very convincing. You mean like everyone but one other member? That's fine. LOL. We're all shaking like a chihuahua in the rain, dude. Please believe me when I say that very few Lakers fans give a [expletive] about the Heat. We're more excited to see how they play, really. Boston is still the team to beat out East, and I'm rooting for them to get back to the Finals because I can't stand the green. It'll be fun watching the Heat play, lots of scoring and athleticism, highlight plays, kind of like the 2004 Olympic team.

You just contradicted yourself. I gave you proof that the duo is better than the trio, because they created a dynasty. Your trio has yet to win a single pre-season game, a regular season game, or even a SCRIMMAGE. Your way of looking at success is combining stats. Sorry, that's not how it works. The facts are right in front of you: Kobe and Shaq are proven champions, arguably the greatest duo of all-time. Your Heat trio? Nothing, nada, zip, zilch. I'm sure you can use your logic to "prove" that McGrady, Kevin Martin and Aaron Brooks would be a better trio than Kobe and Shaq (add up the averages!), but unfortunately, it's not all black and white. There's a reason why you stand alone (or with one other fan, who likes the Heat), and everyone else, including some Heat fans and even non-Lakers fans, aren't slobbering over a trio that has done as much as me, Aaron and Justin on an NBA court together. They've got great talent. There's no question about their talent they have, but, talent doesn't always win. The team that shows the best teamwork will win it." Coming from the greatest coach of all-time. You should take notes.

You forgot the second best scorer on the team, but that would make sense for you to leave him off and include Pavlovic (who didn't even start, originally). And Allen Iverson did the same thing with all of his shooters and defensive-minded players and coach, in 2001. They basically had the same build, team-wise. A 30 PPG slasher that can get to the rim at will (LeBron, Iverson) will win 50-60 games and have an excellent team if he's surrounded by defensive players and shooters, and a defensive-minded coach. That team LeBron led to the Finals was 4th defensively, 18th offensively. Back in 2007, LeBron was not known as an elite defensive player. The fact of the matter is, Kobe and Shaq are great. Wade and LeBron are very, very good. There's a big difference between the words "great" and "good" in the game of basketball. Nine rings, from two legends of the game, two top ten of all-time (arguably top five when they both retire), mentioned in the same sentence as three guys that don't want to compete against each other while they are in their primes, that have a combined one ring, that have fans that can't even SETTLE for others saying their unproven superstar trio will make the Finals? Please. I'm sincerely done debating this nonsense.

Thanks guys.

You might be the only person on OTR that thinks Wade and LeBron are on the same level as Kobe and Shaq. That speaks volumes. I could care less what their numbers are as individual players on separate teams. Kevin Martin could average 25-30 points by himself...doesn't mean much to me. Bryant and Shaq averaged nearly 60 combined points, were the two responsible for the dynasty in Los Angeles, and they didn't need a third 20 PPG scorer to get it done. This is similar to all of those mocks we ran in the past, when my brother was ripping people off by combining his players' stats, and snagging a superstar with a borderline all-star, a sixth man and deep bench players. Jordan and Pippen, Kobe and Shaq, Magic and Kareem. Don't ever stick Wade and LeBron in that group of players, ever, until they have accomplished true greatness.

It's not April Fool's, so I seriously do not get this. Prime Kobe locks up either one today. He doesn't need double teams to do it. Shaq would toy with Chris Bosh so much, he would make Bosh look like Slaven Medvedenko in the post. I really can't believe this is a discussion. Who are the two voters that selected the trio? Just curious...

Haha, a friend of mine bought one for his apartment. It's amazing.

Don Nelson has been an excellent coach most of his coaching career, but these last few years at Golden State have been a wreck. I'm not sure what it is, really...but there's something missing, maybe the desire.

He's going to be in it. The top four "amateur dunkers" will compete in the dunk contest this upcoming season (or they will compete for one spot in it, not exactly sure)...and if this guy makes the contest (and he should), he will definitely win it.

Yeah, I actually had to think about it, as far as building around them. That was my original answer. http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/topic/17508-prime-shaq-and-kobe-vs-the-miami-3/page__view__findpost__p__184531 But when I see someone saying that it's not even close? That the Wade and LeBron duo, alone, are on the same level as the Kobe and Shaq duo? That's feeding a different beast.

Haha, I honestly don't know what else to say. Lakers fans are usually hated because they are homers, but our "homerism" kicks in AFTER we win something. This Miami Heat trio is in the same exact boat as the Arenas, Jamison and Butler trio: no rings. And, well, no nothing. No wins. No 50-win season. Nothing. I get the feeling some fans WANT their team to be the center of attention. Not going to throw Cleveland fans under the bus too much, but they were the same way at one point. Just don't raise that bar too high. I'm sure a lot of members on OTR can cook up a mean crow.

I'm really not sure if you guys are serious with this mess, or not. I mean, to say that a Wade and LeBron duo is on the same level as Kobe and Shaq? That's already hitting rock bottom to begin with. Basketball isn't math. Garnett + Rondo + Pierce + Allen + Perkins > Kobe + Gasol + Odom + Artest + injured Drew? Was LeBron supposed to beat the Detroit Pistons? I mean, come on...Billups + Rip + Prince + Ben + Sheed > LeBron + West, right?

LOL, dude...you can quote me right now: the Heat will make the Finals. Now, let me quote you when you say the Heat will win seven consecutive rings. LeBron is in your head. For a few years, you were all over Cavs fans' asses about how they overrate him, how they overrate their team, etc. Now, you're following their footsteps.

McGrady averaged 30 PPG also. Are you trying to tell us that McGrady was more difficult to defend than O'Neal? I'm not even going to bother with this topic, if you're going to go that route. That's absolutely ridiculous.