Real Deal

Other than those you mentioned, Tim Duncan has a very high basketball IQ. Gasol is up there, somewhere. I know some will think I'm kidding, but Luke Walton is a candidate as well. Too bad he's not a better player, or healthy enough to be a good role player.

Use AIM. We don't delete posts, and I'm not going to close topics I find valuable to the forums just because a couple of members continue to go at each other. And spammers who only care about posting their blog links? You can post videos in your About Me section. I'm not going to allow video uploads, because I don't have the server space for that. Status updates have been around longer than you were registered here, so how do you know if OTR was better? Never going to happen.

I found this in the Chiefs/Browns game topic... So here's what I'm going to do: I'm going to merge your "Michael Jordan" account with your two other accounts (TytheSportsGuy -- the spammer -- and the new Truth_is_the_Standard account you created), and then I'm going to tell you that you're suspended for 30 days, for multiple accounts (you should be banned). If I were moderating your posts, and it was something against you (like, you know, spamming your articles and blog without discussing them), you would be pretty pissed off, saying I am too strict. So I'll show you how things are done, if that's what you really want. See you in 30, just in time for the NBA season.

I'm just not sure if Pierce can carry a load like Granger or Wallace, at this point. Wallace hasn't proven he can average 25-30 points, but he's dropping 20's and playing the best defense on the team. Granger can average 25+ on a less-talented team, primary scoring option. I think Pierce would struggle if he was asked to do the things he did back in the early part of the decade.

Thanks. Very difficult to round out the five after adding Melo. I seriously sat there for almost an hour, changing it up...and finally settled, haha.

By the way, I would appreciate it if you guys helped me out and tweeted the article (using the Tweet button on the blog). No biggie if you don't, though.

I realized I never finished these...so I better get on it. View the rest here: http://www.alldaynba.com/nbageneral/nbas-fab-five-small-forwards

Fun to say you were signed by the Lakers. Not fun when people bring up how bad you ended up being in camp.

I just don't see why Houston wants to bring in Dampier OR Fesenko, when they have one of the best defensive centers in the league in Chuck Hayes. Even though both are legit bigs, I would still trust Hayes against any other big man in the league over those guys.

You say he had 2-3 seasons without Shaq or Gasol to drive and score efficiently...then you say he was doubled and tripled, almost as much as O'Neal, for 2-3 seasons (and I know which seasons you're talking about). Think about that. How is the obvious a cop-out? Why was Kobe playing so much in the post when Bynum or Gasol was injured, but moved right out of it when both returned to the lineup? He was shooting better than 48% with just Drew in the five this season (when Gasol missed the first 11 games), and that was against more doubles than he saw for the rest of the regular season. Was shooting 49-50% for the first 30 or so games of the year, right before the finger re-injury. Yeah, Bryant never did get to the rim like LeBron or Jordan. No reason to kick dirt in his face, though, because when Kobe didn't have a primed post presence (two post players currently), he didn't have a legit second scoring option OR any shooters. No Kukoc, Kerr, Paxson, Armstrong, Williams, West, Jones, Gibson, Ilgauskas, Parker, Szczerbiak, Pavlovic...ALL guys that were teammates of Jordan or James and were knocking down threes at 40% or better while playing alongside those guys. Shooters spread the floor, opening up lanes, turning collapsing defenses stationary. One of the most valuable players a superstar can have as a teammate. Who were Bryant's three-point shooting teammates (40% or better) in those three seasons without a post presence? Brian Cook, who couldn't play over 15-20 minutes a game because he was so pathetic. And...that's it. Efficiency isn't that big of a deal, or else people would still be questioning why Kareem wasn't shooting 58-60% every season, why Gasol shot under 54% for a big last year, why Hakeem NEVER shot 54% in a single season, and why all three of the players I mentioned have two or more championships because of their contributions. Dwight Howard is more efficient than all of the above. Career-wise, he's almost up to par with Shaq. Doesn't mean much, though...because his offensive game is nowhere near the level of Yao Ming's, who is also having trouble posting 55% from the field, a career average of under 53%. Efficiency is overrated.

Deja vu, every time...can't talk about Kobe without noting how inefficient he is. He averaged 35, BUT he didn't shoot 50% like Sherman Douglas or Mark Price did when they averaged 19-20 PPG, or the other 35-40 guards that did it in the 80's and 90's. Kobe put up 27 40+ point games in 2005-06, BUT that was in the regular season. Nash was much more efficient, and he is an excellent passer, so might as well consider Nash a top 20 player in NBA history. Efficiency is through the roof with Steve...six consecutive seasons of 50% shooting or better, 13 of his 14 seasons shooting over 40% from three, six of his last eight seasons shooting 90% or better from the free throw line. Not even God (Jordan) accomplished that. I'm already done talking about Kobe in the topic created just for him. Go figure.

The debate is the all-time rankings, because it includes personal and team accomplishments. Magic has the MVP's and was a superstar for all five of his rings (Kobe for four of his...can't consider Kobe a superstar in 2000, just an amazing all-star). But overall game? I don't think it's close. I don't see anyone touching Kobe or Jordan. People are going to be forced to add Steve Nash to discussions as far as greatest PG's of all-time go, as in top 6-7, because he has two MVP awards and is one of the best passers in the history of the game, not to mention probably in the top three best shooters of all-time at the point. But overall? He's a horrible defender. Will people remember that? Probably not. I still don't get the comparisons to slashing superstar guards and forwards, especially when they are in their 20's. At 22 or 23 years old, Bryant would've eaten those teams alive by slashing to the rim...but he wasn't given that opportunity to go into isolation every play, not in the triangle while Shaq is sitting down low. Bryant's "lack of efficiency" has been made up by his ability to draw doubles and triples more than anyone not named Shaq in the last 20-30 years (won't dip into Wilt or Kareem's era because I really have no idea). When he was without O'Neal, he didn't have much to work with...at all. You gave us that argument for McGrady, so you should accept it for Bryant. Kareem was far, far less efficient than Shaq...but I don't hear anyone talking about that. Shaq's lowest FG% in any season is 55.7%. Guess how many times Kareem shot lower than that? Eight times, and six of those eight were in the first nine years of his career, when he was putting up his best numbers.

Fesenko??? Oh no...bad idea.

Last season, Durant racked up 30 PPG and led the Thunder to 50 wins. How many other players have done that in the last 40 years (since 1970)? 30+ PPG, 50+ wins... Michael Jordan Kobe Bryant Kareem Abdul-Jabbar LeBron James Allen Iverson Dominique Wilkins Karl Malone Kevin Durant That's it. Pretty good company.

I agree. A ton of football fans I know say the same exact thing. The older fans (like my girlfriend's dad) says it's either Rice or Walter Payton.

The fifth ring capped it off. Magic won five, and most LA fans were waiting for Bryant's. Overall player, Bryant topples Magic. I don't see how that's even up for debate. Add the rings? It's even, and it's not like Magic wasn't playing with a Shaq of his own, plus an all-star or two, arguably had more help than Kobe ever did (Kareem, Worthy, Scott, Cooper, Green). I've had plenty of Lakers fans tell me that Magic is better than MJ, that he played "stellar defense" and could score 50 whenever he wanted, but he just wanted to be less selfish. Please. I love Magic, but none of that is true.

This is exactly what I was talking about when I didn't think he'd be at full health this season.

Whoa, Irvin over Moss? -_- Is that because of the rings? Otherwise, I don't see how...

Haha, I agree, I wasn't saying Kareem was more consistent. It's just that Kareem was still effective in his 20th season of playing, which is impressive. When Jordan headed to Washington, he scored 50 as a 40-year old player...but it was evident he wasn't the same, and was pretty inconsistent even netting 20-25 points per. In his 15th season, Malone was still putting up 26 PPG, with 10 boards and 4 assists, 51% FG...and that's pretty impressive as well, especially considering the fact he missed just six total games heading into that season, and never missed the playoffs (158 playoff games when his 15th season ended). Bryant already has more playoff games under his belt. Malone started declining (showing it through his stats) after playing 1,192 regular season games, 158 playoff games. Bryant is still going strong at 1,021 regular season games, 198 playoff games. Pretty close.

Where do you rank him at? I've read that many think he has pulled ahead of Jerry. What do you guys think?

Well, I would consider Kareem another, the way he was still balling after 20 years. He wasn't putting up the big 30/17 he was adding when he was young, but that was also when there were few legit seven-footers defending him.

I disagree...don't think the majority will ever put him over Jordan. He wins eight rings? Three were with Shaq, and that's someone Jordan never had (because, of course, Scottie Pippen and Dennis Rodman -- two greatest defenders of all-time -- are completely irrelevant).

He didn't average more assists the second season...he averaged less. And he took less shots because of Zach Randolph, and one less shot isn't significant enough to say, "Oh, wow, he's definitely less selfish this season." He wasn't selfish his rookie season. He produced nearly the same amount of numbers his sophomore year. What happened his rookie season? He was second in FGA, with 15.6. Gay took 16.0 FGA. Sophomore? Two guys (Gay and Randolph) took 16 FGA per game, which would logically drop Mayo's. If he shot 11 times a game and racked up six or seven assists, THEN you could make that argument, because that decline in his numbers is too dramatic to ignore.

Idea comes from Nitro's post about the Nets losing to the Spurs in the Finals. Post yours. Mine would have to be the 2008 Finals against Boston. Nothing hurt more than losing to the green, and getting absolutely obliterated by 39 in that Game 6. I considered the 2004 Finals loss to Detroit, and the 2006 loss to the Suns (we were up 3-1 that series and lost Game 6 because Odom couldn't grab a [expletive] rebound), but we had our hearts ripped from our chests in 2008.

From Imadul at TLN... http://thelakersnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/43947-kobe-in-the-all-time-lakers-record-books/ Incredible.