Sky

I don't see Houston making the playoffs unless McGrady plays at least 62 games fully healthy and that doesn't appear to be likely. Rocket fans when is he expected to play and be at 100%? And will he hold up when he hasn't in recent years? What's being forgotten is without McGrady and Yao these guys will get a lot more defensive attention and Brooks is the only one who can create his own shot. Ariza with more attempts will just be exposed as the poor shooter he is. He won't get the uncontested looks and open space he did in LA. Brooks has speed but you concede the jumper and play off him and his shot is inconsistent. Battier is a great role player but on a team without McGrady he'd have to put up a lot more points than he's capable of producing. Scola will score more but he'll be swarmed inside. Without McGrady and Yao all you have to do is sink and pack the paint and dare Houston to shoot. The Rockets will have to run to win but you can't run if you don't board. Scola and Landry can, Anderson vs NBA starters? We'll see. Commit to transition defense, pack the paint, Houston loses too many games without McGrady to make the playoffs. Talent wins in the NBA and this year the Rox don't have enough of it. Fans are clinging to the Laker playoff games and then extrapolating four games to 82. Doesn't work that way guys. A team can't maintain that level of energy for a season and the league catches up to how you play. Also have to factor in the poor Laker defense man up at 1 and their team weakness in defending pick and roll, the Phil Jackson kryptonite. Most of the Houston players need a teammate dominating the defense's attention to succeed. Without McGrady that teammate doesn't exist and the limited games of the remaining Rockets are exposed. TMac has to play at least 62 or the 20+ games he's out will have too many losses to make the playoffs.

No opinion is a lock but a GM survey is an educated opinion and frequently an accurate one. The Lakers are deserving favorites, they have the best team entering the season.

They called it right last year.

I think Yugo's point is he claims 999/1,000 of Laker fans are Kobe-first fans, fans who care more about Bryant than the team. I share his revulsion at that but recognize it's a generational thing. I'd also add that the percentage isn't nearly as high as Yugo states, it's just that the Laker fans he's come across are 99% Kobe Kult. I'm thankful Kobe is a Laker but I don't stop being a Laker fan when Kobe hangs them up. Or lose passion for the team and the game. I think some of the Kobe-first fans would.

It's not just Bynum backing away from Kareem but the organization. If there was a natural to replace Rambis it would have been Cap. But KAJ didn't help his cause any by choosing twitter over coaching during the playoffs. Kareem will still be available to Bynum, but it won't be day to day. This isn't just the case of an impulsive 21-year old saying I don't need one of the greatest centers of all time. It's the Lakers backing away too.

Vegas makes the most sense but Stern's paranoia may prevent it. If so the cities that get the most frequent mention for relocated teams are Anaheim, St. Louis and San Jose. Seattle can't happen without a new facility.

West 1. Lakers - Best in the league. 2. Spurs - RJ helps but unless Blair becomes Millsap overnight it'll be tough to get past LA. 3. Nuggets - Good talent but overrated coach. 4. Blazers - Provided Oden stays healthy and takes a step up. 5. Mavs - Aging core. 6. Jazz - Boozer and Okur in contract drives is blessing and curse at same time. 7. Bugs - Okafor gives them more balance but they have to find a bench. 8. Suns - If Amare holds up. 9. Clips - If they stay healthy and Baron's out of the coma they have a playoff shot. 10. Thunder - One year away from the playoffs, core is too young. 11. Rox - Need talent to win. Four playoff games isn't a season. 12. Grizz - Multiple black holes and one basketball = no playoffs 13. Dubs - Randolph will emerge, but too few road wins and too little D. 14. T-Pups - New coach, rookie point and no wings, another lottery trip. 15. Kings - Yikes. East 1. Magic - Vince can work off ball Hedo can't, deeper, but Howard has to develop post footwork. 2. Cavs - Sad about Delonte, they need his speed and defense. 3. Celtics - KG and his stapled knee is a shaky foundation and everything depends on it. 4. Heat - Huge dropoff after big three, D-Mobile will get it done. 5. Wiz - All on Hibachi. 6. Hawks - Paging Josh Smith, kindly show up. 7. Raps - Bosh in contract year, Hedo, but the D? 8. Bulls - All about Rose. 9. Sixers - Can Brand get back to 100%? 10. Pistons - All that cap room for what? 11. Pacers - Granger is the real thing, but he needs more help. 12. Cats - Brown can right way them all he wants, not enough talent. 13. Nets - Harder without Vince. 14. Knicks - Don't open until summer 2010. 15. Bucks - Severe talent drain. Clubhouse leader for Wall.

I've been a Laker fan since 1971. Players come and go. I'm a team zealot not a player zealot. Already been through losing a great one several times. Look at how Magic went out. Nothing will be as painful as that. Will be sad to see Kobe go but jump off a cliff? Hardly. It's a generational gap. You have kids raised on player first all their lives and old school raised on team first (raises hand) who think player first is sacrilege. Sad but move on. Appreciate Kobe greatly, appreciate the rings even more. Pause, say thank you to a legendary player, then move on.

Borousis already signed a new 3-year deal with Olympiacos.

We still need team names for Dash, Chosen One and headliner1. Please take care of it in the name your team thread.

You can name your team anything that would be ok for kids to read. Have to use a real city and then a team nickname. Once all the teams are named I'll run a random draw to determine the draft order.

The vote has been to draft players from 1989-90 forward. So it's not old rosters.

No worries Milwaukee, just a matter of what some prefer I'm cool with that.

No. We may include a stat simulation site as one of the judges but playoff game winners will be decided by a panel of judges based on the game plans submitted by coaches and the player stats from the selected seasons.

The league will be starting up this week. We'll just run with however many want to play and take it from there. The ATL now has it's own forum, go to the bottom of the forum list on the main forum page for OTR'S All Time League. The poll question is up to decide which era of players will be eligible for the draft. You have a choice of drafting players as of 1969-70, 1979-80 or 1989-90. The pros and cons of each choice are listed in the poll question. The thread is here: http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/topic/5471-atl-poll-start-in-70s-80s-or-90s/page__pid__46563__st__0entry46563

Yes. As to who, depends on where you guys choose to draw the line. We can start with 1969-70 forward, 1975, 1980, 1990, you guys make the call. I'll have a poll question on that tomorrow.

I'm talking to people on other boards that could add at least another five or six. If we can add at least a few more here that can take us to 16 and that can be enough. I'll give it until Tuesday night and hopefully we'll have enough players by then.

If you switch Magic and Kobe in time I think Magic doesn't do any more with Kobe's lesser teams, but I'd give Magic more of a shot at a title in 2004. Kobe was crowded and somewhat negated as a result. I don't think they would have had similar success vs. Magic, he could have thrown over the top of Chauncey and Rip to find teammates and force the defense to react. Kobe with Showtime they have enough talent to keep winning but you have to substitute Norm Nixon for Magic and that makes it harder. Kareem and Worthy are less effective.

Here's a link to last year's championship, game was run on lakersground. http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=73181

Thanks, good to be here. Kobe is mentally tough, I just don't think he's that great as a game manager. Tends to be wax on/wax off for predetermined blocks. This quarter I'll lay back, next quarter I'll start shooting, etc. It's about what the moment requires, what the team needs, what matchups need to be worked. I put Magic way ahead of Kobe in game management. Leadership Kobe is improving but it took him a while to get there. He may equal or surpass Magic in ring count, but I think Magic will always be the better leader, in part because his game management is so superior.

I don't know if the old leagues are still up at the various boards, I'll see if I can find something. If it sounds dumb I either haven't explained it well or you don't like the subjectivity involved and want something computerized that simply crunches numbers and spits out a result. That's not this game. Keys are building a complete team and writing a great game plan that takes full advantage of your strengths and exposes the opposition's weaknesses. Need to be solid in team building and great in strategy to win. Number crunching is more objective, this game is more subjective. Winning is still based on what counts most - knowledge of the players and their ability in matchups on both ends, research and strategy. Draft a team Make moves in free agency and trades Coach the team through game plans for offense and defense Judges choose a winner based on the game plans Level of detail in each of those steps are up to the players. Again we've had play diagrams and videos in the past, lengthy game plans, or game plans with strict limits on length and what you can include. Up to you. World - Fair enough. It's been well received in the past. Club Lakers a few years ago ATL was a big hit there. But if some are put off by the subjectivity I understand that concern. All I can say is over time it's worked well and folks have enjoyed it and thought it was fun and worthwhile.

Kobe is the more skilled player physically, but not mentally. And mentally doesn't get the attention it deserves, imo it's more important. Basketball is a team sport and team leader is where Magic excels. Removing that from the equation is forcing the Kobe answer you prefer. Disagree on Bryant getting more rings than Magic did if you switched them in time. Kobe is supremely talented but if I want to win rings I prefer Magic. Purpose of the game is rings.

World - There are no player ratings just salaries. It isn't a sim league where stats are fed to a computer and bam. You put the team together and make the case for it in your game plan. The stats are the numbers of the player from the season the GM/coach chooses. The stats are a foundation for the game plan, nothing more or less. Judges review the stats and the game plans and make their call. Players from earlier decades are given a slight boost in athleticism, judges are asked to put the player in today's context. Still means most modern players will have an edge in athleticism, but not necessarily in skill. A Dr. J translates very well, but a Wes Unseld would not. Can't just go by stats but by how the player would fit in an all-time league. Player stats from 3 and blocks before those were kept are projected. A Jerry West would have money 3 range, Wilt would have sick block numbers, etc. Projections would be provided upfront. Player salaries would not, just guidelines of salaries by tier, #1 in position 30-27M, #2 in position would have a salary based on how close they are to #1 and so on down the line. Salaries come into play in creating cap room if you want to shop and trades are subject to the CBA (125% rule). If the GM/coaches want to reduce the subjective stat projection element by moving the eligible players up to 1980 forward instead of 1970 we can do that, up to you guys. Once we have a set group ready to play we can hold poll votes on what you want to do and set the parameters of the league from there. Thanks for all the interest so far, involved players makes for a great league.

Kobe 1-on-1, on defense, scorer, better player. He's more talented physically. But here's the thing, better leader and game manager is more important. Nine finals appearances in 12 years in a more competitive era proves it. Kobe was the only hall of famer for one of his four titles. Unless you somehow think Shaq isn't making the Hall.

Real - Kobe's titles are only watered down comparatively. No one is going to confuse Reggie's Pacers, Iverson's Sixers, Kidd's Nets and last year's Magic with the Bird Celtics, the Bad Boys, or Philly with Dr. J and Toney. The teams Magic faced would wipe the floor with the teams Kobe beat. Function of the times. Fewer clubs, no cap, more talent, more depth.