Knicks Turn Down Deal For Anthony on Monday

[JYD]

I just think missing out on a deal like that because you don't want to give up some regular NBA role players is a bad move and something that the previous regime would do.

I wouldn't really call giving up 3/5's of your starting lineup that consists of 2 out of the 3 being under the age of 24 'role players.' They have the ability to improve (as Gallo, Fields, and Chandler continue to do each and every year)

 

Marbury is 1/4th of the player that Melo is.

Right...but Marbury was once considered the best PG in the league. Or at least one of them. Dude was unbelievable at the peak of his career.

 

You must have just started watching the NBA recently, I'll leave it at that. Marbury was an elite player in the league for a long time.

Yeah...

 

Lol, trust me I know how good Marbury was. But he's not even in the same league as Carmelo Anthony and that's not even debatable.

That's true. Melo is absolutely a better player...

 

But anyway, less about Marbury, more about the present...

 

The present says giving up Felton, Chandler, Gallo, Eddy Curry's huge contract dumb, and a 1st rounder for Carmelo and a washed up Billups who doesn't fit our system at all is foolish.

[NomarFachix]

Lol, trust me I know how good Marbury was. But he's not even in the same league as Carmelo Anthony and that's not even debatable.

 

This is true, Marbury left the NBA a few years ago.

 

Peak Marbury, though, 1/4th of Carmelo? Completely disagree. As a PG with the ability and output that he had, you're drunk to say he's 1/4th of Carmelo.

Edited February 16, 2011 by Mozgov Cocktail

[Flash]

This is true, Marbury left the NBA a few years ago.

 

Peak Marbury, though, 1/4th of Carmelo? Completely disagree. As a PG with the ability and output that he had, you're drunk to say he's 1/4th of Carmelo.

 

When has a me-first point guard ever been great? Statistically? Maybe. But when you're talking about the whole package he simply not in the same category as Carmelo Anthony. He's arguably a top 5 player in the league today.

[NomarFachix]

The whole package? Melo is a me-first wing... So is he only great statistically? He doesn't board or pass exceptionally well, right? Hasn't won anything in the playoffs yet?

 

Starbury put up seasons of 20+ and 8-9+ with ease. You are drastically underselling Marbs, I'm guessing because his greatness was before your time. Maybe it's because he went crazy or wouldn't adhere to Larry Brown's scheme. I'm not sure. But Marbury in his prime was elite.

 

He was what Melo is... A volume scorer whose team has never accomplished anything in the playoffs and he's asking out. I'm not saying Melo might not be a better player, especially in todays game... But to try and put them on different tiers is silly, if you ask me. Especially at 1/4th the player? Come on, guy.

[AboveLegit]

Stephon Marbury is a better player than most fans and writers want to remember him but everything that has happened is mostly his fault. The problem with his game was that he overdribbled and dominated the ball far too much. I always thought he would be a great PG if he just had a brain of another man.

 

I think NY should just wait it out and get Melo in the offseason rather than trading away multiple starters and picks.

[JYD]

Stephon Marbury is a better player than most fans and writers want to remember him but everything that has happened is mostly his fault. The problem with his game was that he overdribbled and dominated the ball far too much. I always thought he would be a great PG if he just had a brain of another man.

 

I think NY should just wait it out and get Melo in the offseason rather than trading away multiple starters and picks.

Good point...and yeah, basically that's what I think the Knicks will do at this point.

[Newman]

Chicago? I am surprised we are still on the list since it's pretty clear Noah is not for trade.

[Dash]

Stephon Marbury is a better player than most fans and writers want to remember him but everything that has happened is mostly his fault. The problem with his game was that he overdribbled and dominated the ball far too much. I always thought he would be a great PG if he just had a brain of another man.

 

I think NY should just wait it out and get Melo in the offseason rather than trading away multiple starters and picks.

 

I'm not so sure about that, Denver has gotten some leverage back with the news of a possible franchise tag and Melo seems to be hesitating about passing up on the extension. I think they shouldn't take the risk and just trade for him but do try to tone down the Nuggets' demands a bit.

[The Truth]

oh, Flash...

 

I didn't want to have to do this, but yeah, I'm about to tear you to shreds.

 

NY would be retarded not to take that deal. And surprise surprise, the Knicks front office is retarded.

an extremely accurate statement in regards to the Thomas regime, but you can't come in here and criticize Walsh. what that man has done in terms of undoing Isiah's horrendous errors is simply amazing. in just a few short seasons, he's managed to drop some of the worst contracts in the league and replace them with young, vibrant talents.

 

you have to understand this club was a joke when Walsh took the reigns. they were the worst team in the league and the laughingstock of the NBA. Donnie had to start from scratch and do everything he could to create a new team. what he did wasn't rebuilding - it was destructing, then rebuilding. even Stern went to Dolan and made a recommendation for Walsh after Isiah's firing.

 

here's some of the moves Donnie's made as Knicks GM:

 

• signed Amare
  
• signed Felton
  
• drafted Gallo, Fields, and Mozgov
  

and all this with plenty money left to spend still. on what planet that's 'retarded,' I'm not sure. considering the team he inherited: a bunch of washed up veterans with bloated contracts, no youth, and a scarce amount of picks, I'd say he's done a pretty damn good job.

 

Well this is the same front office who put all their eggs into the LBJ basket even though it was known for a good year in advance that he wasn't going there.

but we didn't, though. we targeted other free agents last summer, and we made out pretty well. the money that wasn't spent on LeBron was used toward Amare and Felton, and we still have the cap space for Melo. say what you want about us missing out on James, but I'd take Melo and Amare over him anyday. Melo and Amare actually want to be here and that's what's truly important.

 

The fact is, they should've jumped at this deal when it was on the table. Your front office is falling in love with average players that you can find throughout the league and could possibly be blowing their chance at him.

we absolutely should not have made the deal. trading 3/5 of our starting lineup and a first round pick for Melo is outrageous. we have leverage here, and we're using it. it makes no sense to give away our future for one player, especially when said player could sign with us for nothing in a few months. Zeke did enough in terms of screwing our future, we don't need Walsh to do the same. I'm glad he's giving the stiff middle finger to Ujiri right here.

 

Is it really asking that much losing players that are a dime a dozen in today's NBA in order to get a premier player?

a dime a dozen? since when are all-star caliber players a dime a dozen? Felton's averaging 17/9/4 this year. Gallo's putting up 16/2/5 and he's going to get a lot better. so they want both of them, another starter (probably Fields), and a first pick... for a pending free agent? if Melo still had a few years left on his deal, it'd be worth consideration, but we're not going to trade all those talents for a guy who could end up signing with us for nothing.

 

We've seen in recent years that the whole build around the young core method doesn't exactly equal a championship. Look a the Lakers, Celtics and Heat. All 3 are elite teams and their teams weren't built around a young cores that they drafted and developed. The Spurs are the exception to that rule recently.

what about Chicago? Boozer's the only big name they got from outside. also think about OKC and the Clippers. those are future title contenders and and they were built organically. just because the top few teams in the league had to make deals to get there, doesn't mean every team has to follow the same blueprint.

 

That's a great deal for you guys. We've seen how stingy Denver has been with their demands in regards to Melo and if that's all they were asking for..then you have to make the deal.

ok, let's say they asked for Felton, Gallo, Chandler, and a first for Melo. I'm taking Curry and Billups out of the equation because neither of them would be with the Knicks next year anyway.

 

I'm going to list each player's averages (rounding up) in this order: points, assists, rebounds.

 

Felton - 17/9/4

Gallo - 16/2/5

Chandler - 16/2/6

 

Melo - 25/3/8

 

so if they were to make this deal, they'd be trading 50/13/15 for 25/3/8.

 

oh, you also want a first round pick and Curry's expiring contract? sure, go ahead and take them. you're already raping us pretty hard - might as well go for the jackpot. we have no problem sacrificing three of our best players for a guy who'd probably just sign with us in the summer anyway.

 

I just think missing out on a deal like that because you don't want to give up some regular NBA role players is a bad move and something that the previous regime would do.

the previous regime would do the exact opposite, actually. Zeke was probably the worst GM in the history of professional sports in terms of trading good, young talents and picks for washed up, bloated contracts. that's why Walsh basically traded the entire roster within his first couple years.

 

do you realize Isiah's stupidity stretched so far beyond the universes of belief that he actually drafted Renaldo Balkman over Rajon Rondo, that he traded the same damn picks that ended up becoming LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah, that he dealt the likes of Ariza and McDyess for players that were so horrible in New York that I don't even want mention their names anymore? study the past, young fella, study the past.

 

Marbury is 1/4th of the player that Melo is.

ok, I'll make this short and sweet. in his time with the Knicks, Starbury put up averages of about 18/8/3, not to mention a couple steals and great shooting percentages as well. he was hands down one of the best point guards in the league and he was really the only player on the Knicks during the Isiah era that was worth a damn to the team. so, how he only constitutes for a quarter of Melo, I'll never know.

[fish7718]

Any Knicks fan would know we signed Mozgov, not drafted him, just saying.

Edited February 16, 2011 by fish7718

[Flash]

oh, Flash...

 

I didn't want to have to do this, but yeah, I'm about to tear you to shreds.

 

Since when are you a Knicks fan?

 

an extremely accurate statement in regards to the Thomas regime, but you can't come in here and criticize Walsh. what that man has done in terms of undoing Isiah's horrendous errors is simply amazing. in just a few short seasons, he's managed to drop some of the worst contracts in the league and replace them with young, vibrant talents.

 

you have to understand this club was a joke when Walsh took the reigns. they were the worst team in the league and the laughingstock of the NBA. Donnie had to start from scratch and do everything he could to create a new team. what he did wasn't rebuilding - it was destructing, then rebuilding. even Stern went to Dolan and made a recommendation for Walsh after Isiah's firing.

 

here's some of the moves Donnie's made as Knicks GM:

 

• signed Amare
• signed Felton
• drafted Gallo, Fields, and Mozgov

 

Walsh is a proven front office guy, that's no doubt. But if he doesn't make this deal, and the Knicks end up losing out on Melo then you have to start questioning him. I don't think they should be playing hardball in a deal that favors them already.

 

and all this with plenty money left to spend still. on what planet that's 'retarded,' I'm not sure. considering the team he inherited: a bunch of washed up veterans with bloated contracts, no youth, and a scarce amount of picks, I'd say he's done a pretty damn good job.

 

That's part of the reason I do this trade twice without even thinking. You guys are going to have a decent amount of money to spend this summer, so getting Melo now and then putting some more quality players around him and Amare in the summer will make you guys a better team without a doubt.

 

 

 

we absolutely should not have made the deal. trading 3/5 of our starting lineup and a first round pick for Melo is outrageous. we have leverage here, and we're using it. it makes no sense to give away our future for one player, especially when said player could sign with us for nothing in a few months. Zeke did enough in terms of screwing our future, we don't need Walsh to do the same. I'm glad he's giving the stiff middle finger to Ujiri right here.

 

Again, falling in love with decent role players that are a dime a dozen in the NBA instead of getting and locking up the superstar now and then fitting other role players around him.

 

a dime a dozen? since when are all-star caliber players a dime a dozen? Felton's averaging 17/9/4 this year. Gallo's putting up 16/2/5 and he's going to get a lot better. so they want both of them, another starter (probably Fields), and a first pick... for a pending free agent? if Melo still had a few years left on his deal, it'd be worth consideration, but we're not going to trade all those talents for a guy who could end up signing with us for nothing.

 

None of those guys are all stars except the guy you'd be getting in return. Felton's numbers are also increased because of playing in D'Antoni's system. Felton is a nice player, but the Knicks would be getting Billups in return who is a better player than Felton.

 

I understand that train of thought that you can get him for nothing, but there's a very real possibility that there could be a franchise tag coming to the NBA and he's also taking a hard look at signing that extension with the Nuggets.

 

 

what about Chicago? Boozer's the only big name they got from outside. also think about OKC and the Clippers. those are future title contenders and and they were built organically. just because the top few teams in the league had to make deals to get there, doesn't mean every team has to follow the same blueprint.

 

Until those teams make any actual noise in the playoffs, they're nothing. OKC has potential to do some damage this year because they have the best young player in the league. The Clippers organization has shown time after time that they SUCK. So they're bound to screw things up with that team. As for the Bulls, I don't think they're a contender just yet. They need to get better on the wings if they want to compete with Miami and the potential NY squad in the future.

ok, let's say they asked for Felton, Gallo, Chandler, and a first for Melo. I'm taking Curry and Billups out of the equation because neither of them would be with the Knicks next year anyway.

 

I'm going to list each player's averages (rounding up) in this order: points, assists, rebounds.

 

Felton - 17/9/4

Gallo - 16/2/5

Chandler - 16/2/6

 

Melo - 25/3/8

 

so if they were to make this deal, they'd be trading 50/13/15 for 25/3/8.

 

They're only asking for one of Gallinari and Chandler. So its even better for you guys.

 

oh, you also want a first round pick and Curry's expiring contract? sure, go ahead and take them. you're already raping us pretty hard - might as well go for the jackpot. we have no problem sacrificing three of our best players for a guy who'd probably just sign with us in the summer anyway.

 

You have to understand you're trading for 1 of the best players in the NBA, who isn't past his prime and doesn't have any off the court trouble so his value is going to be a lot higher than your usual superstar trades.

 

the previous regime would do the exact opposite, actually. Zeke was probably the worst GM in the history of professional sports in terms of trading good, young talents and picks for washed up, bloated contracts. that's why Walsh basically traded the entire roster within his first couple years.

 

do you realize Isiah's stupidity stretched so far beyond the universes of belief that he actually drafted Renaldo Balkman over Rajon Rondo, that he traded the same damn picks that ended up becoming LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah, that he dealt the likes of Ariza and McDyess for players that were so horrible in New York that I don't even want mention their names anymore? study the past, young fella, study the past.

 

What has Trevor Ariza been since he left LA? He's another glorified role player. Antonio McDeyess after his injury is a good player, but not anything like what he used to be.

 

The Aldridge and Noah picks was a screw up that caused you to miss out on 2 of the young, talented bigs in the NBA today. Not making this deal would potentially cause you to miss out on one of the premier talents in all of basketball.

 

ok, I'll make this short and sweet. in his time with the Knicks, Starbury put up averages of about 18/8/3, not to mention a couple steals and great shooting percentages as well. he was hands down one of the best point guards in the league and he was really the only player on the Knicks during the Isiah era that was worth a damn to the team. so, how he only constitutes for a quarter of Melo, I'll never know.

 

I stand by what I said. Dude was a headcase who never made anyone around him better.

[JYD]

No way Billups is better than Felton at the stage of their careers right now...Felton on the Knicks is wayyy better than Billups on the Knicks considering the system as well.

 

If we had to give up Chandler, Fields, Randolph, Curry I'd say do it. But not if we have to include Felton or Gallo. Gallinari is easily going to be a 20/7 guy in D'Antoni's system for years to come. We are already thin in the backcourt with Felton, so losing him would make our team even worse (having a solid PG in Dantoni's system is HUGE)...

 

Walsh said...and I agree....

 

"I walk away from every game thinking I've got to do something. I wake up every day thinking that. If it's not going to make you better, no matter how much you want to do something, you can't do it."

[The Truth]

Any Knicks fan would know we signed Mozgov, not drafted him, just saying.

oh, i'm so sorry.

 

I know he was technically signed to the team, but I didn't want to make a new bullet.

 

Since when are you a Knicks fan?

since about a week ago.

 

Walsh is a proven front office guy, that's no doubt. But if he doesn't make this deal, and the Knicks end up losing out on Melo then you have to start questioning him. I don't think they should be playing hardball in a deal that favors them already.

the deal doesn't favor them at all. I already showed that in my last post.

 

That's part of the reason I do this trade twice without even thinking. You guys are going to have a decent amount of money to spend this summer, so getting Melo now and then putting some more quality players around him and Amare in the summer will make you guys a better team without a doubt.

having money doesn't mean we should just trade our best young players. it's important we keep the youth on this team. if we got rid of it all for Melo, we wouldn't have much of a window.

 

Again, falling in love with decent role players that are a dime a dozen in the NBA instead of getting and locking up the superstar now and then fitting other role players around him.

they're more than just decent role players. they're proven starters and they're only going to get better.

 

None of those guys are all stars except the guy you'd be getting in return. Felton's numbers are also increased because of playing in D'Antoni's system. Felton is a nice player, but the Knicks would be getting Billups in return who is a better player than Felton.

Billups is in no way better than Felton at this point of his career. besides, Billups would only be a rental. he has a $14M team option for next season and there's no way in hell we'd want to pick that up, not with all these other free agents we could sign. it makes no sense to trade Felton for a half-season rental, especially when we could potentially use Felton in a blockbuster trade next year to get someone like CP3 or D-Will.

 

I understand that train of thought that you can get him for nothing, but there's a very real possibility that there could be a franchise tag coming to the NBA and he's also taking a hard look at signing that extension with the Nuggets.

that's just a ploy he's using to put some pressure on the Knicks. if he wanted to stay with Denver, he would have signed the extension a long time ago. he's going to test the waters for sure.

 

Until those teams make any actual noise in the playoffs, they're nothing. OKC has potential to do some damage this year because they have the best young player in the league. The Clippers organization has shown time after time that they SUCK. So they're bound to screw things up with that team. As for the Bulls, I don't think they're a contender just yet. They need to get better on the wings if they want to compete with Miami and the potential NY squad in the future.

my point was that not every team has to sign a bunch of big time free agents to become champs. it can be done organically if executed well enough.

 

They're only asking for one of Gallinari and Chandler. So its even better for you guys.

they asked for Felton, Gallo, Curry, a first rounder AND another starter - that would either be Chandler or Fields. either way, that's too much to give up for Melo.

 

You have to understand you're trading for 1 of the best players in the NBA, who isn't past his prime and doesn't have any off the court trouble so his value is going to be a lot higher than your usual superstar trades.

but he's also a pending free agent and the Knicks know they're probably the favorite to land him in the summer, so they have a great deal of leverage here as well.

 

What has Trevor Ariza been since he left LA? He's another glorified role player. Antonio McDeyess after his injury is a good player, but not anything like what he used to be.

but they were still horrible trades for the Knicks, which was my point.