Jump to content






Team USA vs. Argentina



  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Founder/Owner


  • 48,657 posts
  • Joined: 26-January 05
  • Location:Coffeyville, KS
  • Name: Brandon
  • Fav Player: Kobe and Jordan

Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:33 PM

TIME: 5:15 PM ET
TV: NBC Sports Network

#2 ChosenOne

ChosenOne

    Hall of Fame


  • 11,802 posts
  • Joined: 31-May 08
  • Fav Player: D-Will | James Harden | KMart

Posted 06 August 2012 - 12:05 AM

Argentina smacks us if we play the same as last game. Let hope Coach K put them all in their place the last couple of days.

Posted Image
Posted Image


#3 CaliCurbStomppa

CaliCurbStomppa

    TRAIN HARD!!!!


  • 5,553 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 06
  • Location:Irwin, PA
  • Name: Josh
  • Fav Player: Carmelo Anthony

Posted 06 August 2012 - 03:00 PM

We will do better after what happened last game. We cant be chucking up 3s. Attack the rim and play better D

#4 Oliver P

Oliver P

    Why don't you make like a tree and get outta here ?!


  • 452 posts
  • Joined: 31-October 10
  • Location:France
  • Name: Olivier
  • Fav Player: Ewing, Starks, Nowitzki

Posted 06 August 2012 - 05:14 PM

I honestly don't know what to expect of that game. It may be a blow out for the US, a very close win for the US or a win for Argentina... Really don't have a clue.

Of course the most logical outcome would be a huge win by the US, no other team comes close to them in terms of pure talent.. But after the last game, and what happened during the last decade, I can't say that I would be surprised if Team USA lost that one. Just like most people I suppose..

We can now assert it : even if they've now taken the international games more seriously, even if they now have a solid preparation for the Olympics and the World Cup, even if they've now showed more respect towards the international teams and players, American players just don't know how to deal with the zone defense. The real one.

Yes I am perfectly aware that the zone defense is now allowed in the NBA but it is important to know that this zone is not a REAL zone defense. Because in a real zone defense, the one they use in FIBA games, every player is allowed to stay in the paint for as long as they want, no matter how far away a player stands from their direct opponent. The five defenders can all remain in the paint at the same time, for as long as they want. Which makes scoring in the paint really hard, and basically force the opponents to shoot from long distance.

And that is why I was strongly opposed to the introduction of the zone in the NBA the first time I heard about it. Fortunately they decided to change it a bit (as we all know) and in reality this introduction of the zone was only a good excuse to get rid of the "illegal defense" that no one seemed to know when and why they were called, it even seemed sometimes that the refs called it randomly... And so the zone D didn't have a big impact on the NBA games, definitely not as much as some people might think it had.. If the real zone had been introduced it would have had a HUGE impact, and a very bad one if you want my opinion, cause I've never been a fan of this defense, it's because of it that there is not enough variety offensively in the FIBA game, and that international players tend to shoot too much from long distance. Which is why I would love it if they used the NBA rules everywhere in the world (at the exception of the basket interference maybe, the only FIBA rule I would like to see in the NBA).

But anyhow the fact is that, because of that, American players still ain't comfortable with real zone defenses. We saw that in the last game, when when all they did was to penetrate and pass the ball to a wing player for a three pointer.. and most of the time a missed three pointer. That's what they did the whole game long : iso and long range shots. Personally I just couldn't believe that they didn't try something else. That was just ludicrous.

There's something very important to understand : you can't use isos in the FIBA games. You HAVE to PASS the ball. All the time. Well you can use isos, but only once in while. And Team USA has a lot of problems with that. Why ? Because they're all superstars, NBA superstars that are used to use a lot of isos. And have troubles to get use to play differently. Now there were only superstars in the Dream Team too, it didn't keep them away to play a perfect basketball. But the fact is that players back then were way smarter, they had a much bigger basketball IQ and they all mastered the fundamentals of basketball. They didn't need to have a heavy preparation to get used to the FIBA rules, they figured them out almost rightaway. And that's where we see the difference between basketball at the time and today's basketball. Now it is true that the international basketball has improved all over the world too, but definitely not as much as most people think.. And teams like Croatia, who the Dream Team destroyed in the Olympic Finals, were much better than most of the 2012 Olympic tournament.

Also I think that there are too many superstars in Team USA. USA basketball staff seems to be totally obsessed with superstars. Personally I've been saying it for years, I've been saying that Team USA need to have role players in their teams. I think they should get 3 or 4 superstars (maybe 5 but no more) and fill the rest with role players. They don't have any 3 points specialist for example. How can you play a FIBA tournament without any three point pure shooters ?? Sure Durant, Love, Anthony are very good shooters but I wouldn't call them 3 points specialists at the same time. I think they would need a specialist like Novak, Korver or Ray, someone who gets on the court ONLY to shoot from behind the ark and can get on fire any moment. This kind of players would be terrific in the FIBA game.

USA basketball staff seems to be so obsessed with stars that they prefer to pick a superstar wing player than a average center to replace stars like Bosh and Howard. And so they now have only Chandler and Love inside, two very good inside players but one is only a defender while the other spends too much time behind the ark on the offensive end. No back to the basket player. And their only other inside player is a rookie that they don't even use.. Total nonsense. Why couldn't they pick a DeMarcus Cousins, a Greg Monroe or a Paul Millsap, a talented inside player who brings size, rebounds and can score. That's much better than using Melo inside.

Well anyway I think that tonight's game's gonna bring a lot of answers. It's gonna be very interesting to see how Team USA reacts to what happened in the last game. I said before that it could have a positive impact, as it reminds them that they need to play their best every game to get that gold medal, but it could also have a negative impact. As now they know that they can lose, it can trouble them and actually make them lose.. We're now see what these players really got, and how tough they are inside their heads.

And no matter what they're now gonna have to change their games and PASS the DAM BALL ! Passing the ball is very important with FIBA, they have to understand that. Especially that LeBron won't be able to save them like he did in the last game every time. Team USA was actually lucky that Lithuania didn't have great players inside, cause I am personally sure that LeBron wouldn't have scored that easily in the paint against Spain and the Gasol brothers and Ibaka. Iso on LeBron wouldn't have saved them against Spain.

Well there's at least one thing for sure : Argentina is a good team but they definitely are not as good as they were the last decade and Team USA SHOULD win that one by AT LEAST 20. But honestly I will be happy if Team USA wins that one, no matter if it's a blowout or a close one.

Check out my blog :

 

OliverBigApple


#5 TheNotoriousBANG

TheNotoriousBANG

    Superstar


  • 7,757 posts
  • Joined: 07-October 11
  • Name: Willie
  • Fav Player: Beamon

Posted 06 August 2012 - 06:31 PM

I honestly don't know what to expect of that game. It may be a blow out for the US, a very close win for the US or a win for Argentina... Really don't have a clue.

Of course the most logical outcome would be a huge win by the US, no other team comes close to them in terms of pure talent.. But after the last game, and what happened during the last decade, I can't say that I would be surprised if Team USA lost that one. Just like most people I suppose..

We can now assert it : even if they've now taken the international games more seriously, even if they now have a solid preparation for the Olympics and the World Cup, even if they've now showed more respect towards the international teams and players, American players just don't know how to deal with the zone defense. The real one.

Yes I am perfectly aware that the zone defense is now allowed in the NBA but it is important to know that this zone is not a REAL zone defense. Because in a real zone defense, the one they use in FIBA games, every player is allowed to stay in the paint for as long as they want, no matter how far away a player stands from their direct opponent. The five defenders can all remain in the paint at the same time, for as long as they want. Which makes scoring in the paint really hard, and basically force the opponents to shoot from long distance.

And that is why I was strongly opposed to the introduction of the zone in the NBA the first time I heard about it. Fortunately they decided to change it a bit (as we all know) and in reality this introduction of the zone was only a good excuse to get rid of the "illegal defense" that no one seemed to know when and why they were called, it even seemed sometimes that the refs called it randomly... And so the zone D didn't have a big impact on the NBA games, definitely not as much as some people might think it had.. If the real zone had been introduced it would have had a HUGE impact, and a very bad one if you want my opinion, cause I've never been a fan of this defense, it's because of it that there is not enough variety offensively in the FIBA game, and that international players tend to shoot too much from long distance. Which is why I would love it if they used the NBA rules everywhere in the world (at the exception of the basket interference maybe, the only FIBA rule I would like to see in the NBA).

But anyhow the fact is that, because of that, American players still ain't comfortable with real zone defenses. We saw that in the last game, when when all they did was to penetrate and pass the ball to a wing player for a three pointer.. and most of the time a missed three pointer. That's what they did the whole game long : iso and long range shots. Personally I just couldn't believe that they didn't try something else. That was just ludicrous.

There's something very important to understand : you can't use isos in the FIBA games. You HAVE to PASS the ball. All the time. Well you can use isos, but only once in while. And Team USA has a lot of problems with that. Why ? Because they're all superstars, NBA superstars that are used to use a lot of isos. And have troubles to get use to play differently. Now there were only superstars in the Dream Team too, it didn't keep them away to play a perfect basketball. But the fact is that players back then were way smarter, they had a much bigger basketball IQ and they all mastered the fundamentals of basketball. They didn't need to have a heavy preparation to get used to the FIBA rules, they figured them out almost rightaway. And that's where we see the difference between basketball at the time and today's basketball. Now it is true that the international basketball has improved all over the world too, but definitely not as much as most people think.. And teams like Croatia, who the Dream Team destroyed in the Olympic Finals, were much better than most of the 2012 Olympic tournament.

Also I think that there are too many superstars in Team USA. USA basketball staff seems to be totally obsessed with superstars. Personally I've been saying it for years, I've been saying that Team USA need to have role players in their teams. I think they should get 3 or 4 superstars (maybe 5 but no more) and fill the rest with role players. They don't have any 3 points specialist for example. How can you play a FIBA tournament without any three point pure shooters ?? Sure Durant, Love, Anthony are very good shooters but I wouldn't call them 3 points specialists at the same time. I think they would need a specialist like Novak, Korver or Ray, someone who gets on the court ONLY to shoot from behind the ark and can get on fire any moment. This kind of players would be terrific in the FIBA game.

USA basketball staff seems to be so obsessed with stars that they prefer to pick a superstar wing player than a average center to replace stars like Bosh and Howard. And so they now have only Chandler and Love inside, two very good inside players but one is only a defender while the other spends too much time behind the ark on the offensive end. No back to the basket player. And their only other inside player is a rookie that they don't even use.. Total nonsense. Why couldn't they pick a DeMarcus Cousins, a Greg Monroe or a Paul Millsap, a talented inside player who brings size, rebounds and can score. That's much better than using Melo inside.

Well anyway I think that tonight's game's gonna bring a lot of answers. It's gonna be very interesting to see how Team USA reacts to what happened in the last game. I said before that it could have a positive impact, as it reminds them that they need to play their best every game to get that gold medal, but it could also have a negative impact. As now they know that they can lose, it can trouble them and actually make them lose.. We're now see what these players really got, and how tough they are inside their heads.

And no matter what they're now gonna have to change their games and PASS the DAM BALL ! Passing the ball is very important with FIBA, they have to understand that. Especially that LeBron won't be able to save them like he did in the last game every time. Team USA was actually lucky that Lithuania didn't have great players inside, cause I am personally sure that LeBron wouldn't have scored that easily in the paint against Spain and the Gasol brothers and Ibaka. Iso on LeBron wouldn't have saved them against Spain.

Well there's at least one thing for sure : Argentina is a good team but they definitely are not as good as they were the last decade and Team USA SHOULD win that one by AT LEAST 20. But honestly I will be happy if Team USA wins that one, no matter if it's a blowout or a close one.


No one wants to watch role players,
this is the olympics send out the best. Did Dream Team have any role players???

NO

#6 Nitro

Nitro

    King


  • 4,589 posts
  • Joined: 24-September 07
  • Location:NJ
  • Name: Alex
  • Fav Player: D-Wade

Posted 06 August 2012 - 09:03 PM

If Team USA don't give a better effort than their last game, I'm moving to Canada.
Posted Image
Bang bang.

#7 Makaveli

Makaveli

    Bench Player


  • 774 posts
  • Joined: 16-February 10
  • Fav Player: Kobe Bryant

Posted 06 August 2012 - 10:15 PM

If Team USA don't give a better effort than their last game, I'm moving to Canada.

Unless something changes in the 2nd half you better start packing.
"When i die, I wanna be a living legend"
- T.Shakur

#8 Lkr

Lkr

    48-21


  • 18,241 posts
  • Joined: 12-April 06
  • Fav Player: Kobe Bryant

Posted 06 August 2012 - 10:29 PM

LeDominance

#9 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Founder/Owner


  • 48,657 posts
  • Joined: 26-January 05
  • Location:Coffeyville, KS
  • Name: Brandon
  • Fav Player: Kobe and Jordan

Posted 06 August 2012 - 10:37 PM

This isn't Kobe's game, at all...he can't play with four other superstars, lol.

#10 Lemon

Lemon

    Sixth Man


  • 1,031 posts
  • Joined: 05-October 09
  • Location:CA
  • Fav Player: Kobe

Posted 06 August 2012 - 11:09 PM

I felt pretty heated in the first half with all those calls and missed shots and allowEd shots. I guess the team felt it too. Now I can't wait for the semi finals. They'll come out for sure. It's been a while since I've seen a whole team show anguish for the other team in this way.
“How to truly make players better, what that really means. It’s not just passing to your guys and getting them shots. It’s not getting this or that many players into double figures. That’s bullshit. That’s not how you win championships. You’ve got to change the culture of your team – that’s how you truly make guys better."

Lakers


#11 JYD

JYD


  • 5,543 posts
  • Joined: 29-June 09
  • Location:N. Carolina
  • Name: Tyrone
  • Fav Player: JR Smith

Posted 06 August 2012 - 11:31 PM

This isn't Kobe's game, at all...he can't play with four other superstars, lol.

Nope. He looks awful man. He needs to stop forcing the issue. What is it with the 1 on 5 he does in this? We know he's got a great feel for the game, pass the fucking ball mayne!

Pretty fun game to watch. Thought Melo got seriously injured when he just dropped like that. SMH at Argentina man they don't want it with us

#12 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Founder/Owner


  • 48,657 posts
  • Joined: 26-January 05
  • Location:Coffeyville, KS
  • Name: Brandon
  • Fav Player: Kobe and Jordan

Posted 07 August 2012 - 12:50 AM

Nope. He looks awful man. He needs to stop forcing the issue. What is it with the 1 on 5 he does in this? We know he's got a great feel for the game, pass the fucking ball mayne!

Pretty fun game to watch. Thought Melo got seriously injured when he just dropped like that. SMH at Argentina man they don't want it with us

I think he's struggling because the other guys are like him. He keeps looking down low, but there's no low post.

#13 Nitro

Nitro

    King


  • 4,589 posts
  • Joined: 24-September 07
  • Location:NJ
  • Name: Alex
  • Fav Player: D-Wade

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:22 AM

The issue with Kobe is he can't get to the rim and finish well anymore, and doesn't pick the passing lanes much, so he's stuck playing the way he does in the NBA...iso's from midrange with a bad shot here and there. Same thing in 2008. What resulted then and what will probably happen now is a shooting percentage roughly about what he has in the NBA, as opposed to a guy like Wade who was shooting like 65% in that Olympics (and Melo historically is a lot more efficient when it comes to FIBA as well).

Much happier with the team's play today, however their defense is a HUGE issue. Constantly getting lost defensively and not knowing when to be aggressive, so they are getting picked apart with many opposing players being wide open constantly. The team has to pick either the 3pt line or the middle to lock down, and make the other team beat them the other way. I'd lock down the 3pt line because international teams have greater shooting advantages over Team USA, while they are less athletic than us. Therefor, I think it is better to force teams into the paint, because our team has length and athleticism to bother them on their drives to the rim. However, if we pack the paint and leave the 3pt line open, we are gonna keep getting burned with easy 3 pointers, and it's a lot harder to force turnovers against teams that are always making easy passes to open shooters.
Posted Image
Bang bang.

#14 Real Deal

Real Deal

    Founder/Owner


  • 48,657 posts
  • Joined: 26-January 05
  • Location:Coffeyville, KS
  • Name: Brandon
  • Fav Player: Kobe and Jordan

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:28 AM

The issue with Kobe is he can't get to the rim and finish well anymore, and doesn't pick the passing lanes much, so he's stuck playing the way he does in the NBA...iso's from midrange with a bad shot here and there. Same thing in 2008. What resulted then and what will probably happen now is a shooting percentage roughly about what he has in the NBA, as opposed to a guy like Wade who was shooting like 65% in that Olympics (and Melo historically is a lot more efficient when it comes to FIBA as well).

Yeah, but he was even playing that way against Nigeria in the opening minutes (when he dumped in 16 points or so in the first half), and they had absolutely nobody on him OR in the frontcourt. Bryant may be slower, but he can take a lot of these guys off the dribble. The NBA is an entirely different breed of players, for the most part.

Sometimes, he's being used as a spot-up shooter out there...and understandably, because there are four other all-stars on the court at once...but Kobe just can't play that way.

#15 Nitro

Nitro

    King


  • 4,589 posts
  • Joined: 24-September 07
  • Location:NJ
  • Name: Alex
  • Fav Player: D-Wade

Posted 07 August 2012 - 02:35 AM

Yeah, but he was even playing that way against Nigeria in the opening minutes (when he dumped in 16 points or so in the first half), and they had absolutely nobody on him OR in the frontcourt. Bryant may be slower, but he can take a lot of these guys off the dribble. The NBA is an entirely different breed of players, for the most part.


Kobe can get by people, it's finishing at the rim against the help that's an issue, and it's the same in the NBA. In the NBA it's a little less noticable because a) he's more likely to get calls, and b) there is less spacing in FIBA, and I believe no defensive 3 2nd rule, so it's at times harder to fully get to the rim and finish.

Sometimes, he's being used as a spot-up shooter out there...and understandably, because there are four other all-stars on the court at once...but Kobe just can't play that way.


He has to adapt, especially since next season he'll be playing with Nash and getting a LOT more spot-up opportunities.

LeBron had to adapt big time with Miami, and did it. Kobe will have to the same now and next season.
Posted Image
Bang bang.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users