AL East Or NL West

[EastCoastNiner]

Which division is better in your opinion?

 

Also, give each division and team in the divisions a rating from 1-10, with a rating of how good they can be and are playing right now.

 

I'm sure you can guess which Colorado Rockies fan keeps saying that the AL East is not that much better than the NL West......

When they are playing to their ability:

 

New York Yankees- 10

Boston Red Sox- 10

Tampa Bay Rays- 10

Toronto Blue Jays- 7

Baltimore Orioles- 5

 

 

L.A. Dodgers- 9

SF Giants- 8

Colorado Rockies- 8

D-Backs- 4

Padres- 2

 

 

 

Right now, I would give the Boston Red Sox about a 3/10, if that, since they are struggling mightily, and I would give the New York Yankees a 20/10.

 

 

I know I don't watch the NL West enough, but I just don't see the same talent in that division that there is in the AL East.

 

 

I don't see what the NL West even has on the AL East........

 

 

I don't think I'm being bias when I say that I would take the AL East pitching over the NL West pitching as a whole anyway of the week, and I don't think that hitting is even up for debate regardless of how [expletive]ty the Boston Red Sox are playing.

 

 

What are your opinions, and am I being unfair?

Edited August 10, 2009 by EastCoastNiner

[Built Ford Tough]

I honestly don't even see how you can try and dispute the fact that the AL East is the superior divison. They are far and away the best division in baseball in my opinion.

[trutrojan8]

I said the AL East is superior to the NL West, so I'll go with the AL East. However, if the Rays are a 10, the Rockies are a 10 since they have the best record in baseball since June. Also if the Sox are a 10, then the Dodgers are a 10, since they have the second best record in the leagues. And the Giants are a 9 or a 10, since 2 out of every 5 games they have aces on the mound. I'd give the Padres a 3 or 4, the D-bags a 5 just because of Haren and Webb (when healthy)

 

Planethockey1 (11:32:25 AM): is the NL West better?

jjdukebball (11:32:58 AM): than what

Planethockey1 (11:33:03 AM): AL East

jjdukebball (11:33:13 AM): i think it's debatable but no

 

So like I said, the AL East is better, but there's no way in hell the NL West is a pushover like you believe.

[Guru]

AL East. No contest really, I don't like your number rankings though.

[EastCoastNiner]

AL East. No contest really, I don't like your number rankings though.

 

I'm guessing that you would rank the Boston Red Sox and Tampa Bay Rays lower....

 

What would you rank them?

 

 

The Tampa Bay Rays made the World Series and give the Boston Red Sox fits, and they have hitting, pitching, speed, and fielding.....

Edited August 10, 2009 by EastCoastNiner

[Flight]

If the Giants play to their ability, they're a 10. No 1-2 punch in baseball is better than Lincecum and Cain. Velez, Sandoval, and Bengie are playing well lately, and the other guys can be good.

 

 

That said, there's not strength beyond LA and SF. Yeah, I said it. Colorado can't keep this up. I know they had that amazing stretch and got to the World Series (and got swept by the Sox), but still. Colorado has much less talent and far less pitching. Marquis isn't worthy of 12 wins IMO, he's been on the mound good days. He's good, but not as great as his numbers are.

 

 

The AL East has depth. The Orioles ever are improved, Adam Jones is a future MVP. Jays have shown very nice stretches, and the Rays, Yankees, and Sox are all worthy playoff teams. One won't make it though.

[trutrojan8]

If the Giants play to their ability, they're a 10. No 1-2 punch in baseball is better than Lincecum and Cain. Velez, Sandoval, and Bengie are playing well lately, and the other guys can be good.

 

 

That said, there's not strength beyond LA and SF. Yeah, I said it. Colorado can't keep this up. I know they had that amazing stretch and got to the World Series (and got swept by the Sox), but still. Colorado has much less talent and far less pitching. Marquis isn't worthy of 12 wins IMO, he's been on the mound good days. He's good, but not as great as his numbers are.

 

 

The AL East has depth. The Orioles ever are improved, Adam Jones is a future MVP. Jays have shown very nice stretches, and the Rays, Yankees, and Sox are all worthy playoff teams. One won't make it though.

So being 11 games over .500 is just a fluke, eh?

[EastCoastNiner]

I may not have said it at the beginning of the season, but I will take Josh Beckett and Jon Lester over Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain.

[trutrojan8]

I may not have said it at the beginning of the season, but I will take Josh Beckett and Jon Lester over Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain.

And that's why you guys got swept.

[EastCoastNiner]

And that's why you guys got swept.

 

How does that make any sense?

[Phightins]

Giants fans....sorry but your offense is not that good, even at it's fullest potential. Don't take that as a knock because you still are a damn good team. That pitching staff is dynamite and can match up IMO with any staff in baseball, especially in a playoff short series, and your team really fits that huge stadium like a glove. So if your pitching lives up to the hype, your team plays solid defense, and you play small ball and use those huge gaps to your advantage, honestly the team could do serious damage if they make the postseason. But please do not try to say your offense is good lol.

 

 

With that said, AL East no question. I honestly think if you subbed the Dodgers with either the Blue Jays or Orioles, the Dodgers would be in 4th in the AL East. That is just how strong that division is.

Edited August 10, 2009 by Phightins09

[Flash]

Lincecum and Cain >>>>>>Beckett and Lester.

 

Boston is not a 10 and neither is TB. You have to judge by the way team are playing right now this moment. A baseball team is rarely ever going to play at full capability every game.

 

This isn't a contest though. The AL East is light years ahead of the NL West.

[Guru]

I'm guessing that you would rank the Boston Red Sox and Tampa Bay Rays lower....

 

What would you rank them?

 

If we are talking about how they are playing right now, I would give them both a 9.

[fly3rs18]

I may not have said it at the beginning of the season, but I will take Josh Beckett and Jon Lester over Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain.

 

HAHAHAHAHHA

[EastCoastNiner]

HAHAHAHAHHA

 

It's really not that laughable.

 

 

I'll post my reasons later, but which rotation would you take if you had a choice?

 

 

Tim Lincincum

Roy Halladay

C.C. Sabathia

Cliff Lee

 

Or:

 

Josh Beckett

Chris Carpenter

Johan Santana

Curt Shilling(To help make my point)

 

 

Assume all of these players are healthy, which staff would you want?

 

 

 

I am taking the second staff, and I'm not even second guessing my decision.

[Phightins]

I will take the Red Sox rotation as a whole, but Lincecum and Cain as a top 2.

[fly3rs18]

first one

[EastCoastNiner]

first one

 

That's what I though, and I would guess that most people on this boards would say the same thing, but I disagree, and this is part of my reasoning that I don't think that choosing Josh Beckett and Jon Lester over Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain is laughable.

 

 

Tim Lincincum- Although he is one of the best pitchers in the MLB, he hasn't faced enough tough competition in my opinion, and he has no playoff experience.

Roy Halladay- He's a great pitcher, but once again, he hasn't pitched in any playoff games, and hasn't had that type of pressure on him.

C.C. Sabathia- He is the only pitcher of this group that has any playoff experience, and he has a 7.92 ERA for his career during the playoffs.

Cliff Lee- He is a very good pitcher who won the 2008 Cy Young award, but he is also the same pitcher that was sent down to the minors two seasons ago, and has no playoff experience.

 

 

 

 

Josh Beckett- He has a career 2.90 ERA in the post-season, even though he had a poor playoff performance last season after a poor regular season as well. He is the best playoff pitcher in the MLB right now. He also has a World Series MVP to his credit.

Chris Carpenter- He was the 2005 NL Cy Young Award winner, with a career 2.53 ERA during the playoffs.

 

Johan Santana- He's a two time Cy Young Award winner, and he has a career 3.97 ERA during the playoffs, and that's including his terrible ERA in games he didn't start.

 

Curt Shilling- He has a career 2.23 ERA during the playoffs, and has a World Series MVP Award to his credit. He is one of the best playoff pitchers in the history of the MLB.

 

 

 

In a sport like baseball where a pitcher can change the entire game, I would feel a lot more comfortable with the second group of pitchers.

[trutrojan8]

I love how you describe the best pitcher in baseball as "great", but when you describe Schilling, you praise him like he's god. Fact is, Schilling's old and will not do [expletive]. Compare them both as a two way street.

Edited August 10, 2009 by trutrojan8

[The Artesticle]

Curt Schilling? I thought he retired.

[Flight]

It's really not that laughable.

 

I am taking the second staff, and I'm not even second guessing my decision.

You contradicted yourself.

 

Your opinion in baseball is so biased, it's ridiculous. I used to like the Red Sox, but honestly I think you've turned me off entirely haha.

 

 

And Phigtins, I'll be the first to say that the offense is pretty weak and needs major upgrades with a power hitter, and a good leadoff-type guy besides Eugenio. That said, when Panda and Eugene-Yo are rolling, they alone can put up 5 runs with the help of each other.

[EastCoastNiner]

You contradicted yourself.

 

Your opinion in baseball is so biased, it's ridiculous. I used to like the Red Sox, but honestly I think you've turned me off entirely haha.

 

 

And Phigtins, I'll be the first to say that the offense is pretty weak and needs major upgrades with a power hitter, and a good leadoff-type guy besides Eugenio. That said, when Panda and Eugene-Yo are rolling, they alone can put up 5 runs with the help of each other.

 

How did I contradict myself?

 

I haven't once done that, and it's not biased at all, as I have criticized the team many, many times, and you're just mad because I don't think Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain are by far the best 1-2 punch, when you bandwagon the S.F. Giants, so you're mad.

 

 

Also, I mentioned Curt Shilling as a hypothetical person to help make my point.

 

 

 

It's not my fault that all of the Boston related sports teams are good, so if people think they are the best, everyone will say Boston fans are being biased. .

Edited August 11, 2009 by EastCoastNiner

[Phightins]

That's what I though, and I would guess that most people on this boards would say the same thing, but I disagree, and this is part of my reasoning that I don't think that choosing Josh Beckett and Jon Lester over Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain is laughable.

 

 

Tim Lincincum- Although he is one of the best pitchers in the MLB, he hasn't faced enough tough competition in my opinion, and he has no playoff experience.

Roy Halladay- He's a great pitcher, but once again, he hasn't pitched in any playoff games, and hasn't had that type of pressure on him.

C.C. Sabathia- He is the only pitcher of this group that has any playoff experience, and he has a 7.92 ERA for his career during the playoffs.

Cliff Lee- He is a very good pitcher who won the 2008 Cy Young award, but he is also the same pitcher that was sent down to the minors two seasons ago, and has no playoff experience.

 

 

 

 

Josh Beckett- He has a career 2.90 ERA in the post-season, even though he had a poor playoff performance last season after a poor regular season as well. He is the best playoff pitcher in the MLB right now. He also has a World Series MVP to his credit.

Chris Carpenter- He was the 2005 NL Cy Young Award winner, with a career 2.53 ERA during the playoffs.

 

Johan Santana- He's a two time Cy Young Award winner, and he has a career 3.97 ERA during the playoffs, and that's including his terrible ERA in games he didn't start.

 

Curt Shilling- He has a career 2.23 ERA during the playoffs, and has a World Series MVP Award to his credit. He is one of the best playoff pitchers in the history of the MLB.

 

 

 

In a sport like baseball where a pitcher can change the entire game, I would feel a lot more comfortable with the second group of pitchers.

 

I hate this argument that you are using. Because Lincecum, Halladay, and Lee have not had the privilege of pitching in meaningful games yet, we are to assume they will not perform well in them? This should not even be a factor, since frankly we have no idea how they will do in the playoffs. There is a good chance we will find out in October about Lincecum and Lee, but until then it's a pointless argument. This argument should be based on what we do know, not what we don't know. Beckett, Carpenter, and Schilling have all done it in the postseason, in part because they have all been lucky enough to play for winning teams.

 

With that said, I would still take the first rotation although I agree I don't think the two rotations are as far off as most would think (minus your inclusion of Schilling of course).

Edited August 11, 2009 by Phightins09

[EastCoastNiner]

I hate this argument that you are using. Because Lincecum, Halladay, and Lee have not had the privilege of pitching in meaningful games yet, we are to assume they will not perform well in them? This should not even be a factor, since frankly we have no idea how they will do in the playoffs. There is a good chance we will find out in October about Lincecum and Lee, but until then it's a pointless argument. This argument should be based on what we do know, not what we don't know. Beckett, Carpenter, and Schilling have all done it in the postseason, in part because they have all been lucky enough to play for winning teams.

 

With that said, I would still take the first rotation although I agree I don't think the two rotations are as far off as most would think (minus your inclusion of Schilling of course).

 

If I threw Cole Hammels in there I'm sure you wouldn't hate the argument, but anyways........

 

 

This is one sport where one individual position makes all of the difference in the world, and there have been other great pitchers that haven't fared well in the playoffs, so I fail to see how it is a dumb argument.

[Flight]

How did I contradict myself?

 

I haven't once done that, and it's not biased at all, as I have criticized the team many, many times, and you're just mad because I don't think Tim Lincincum and Matt Cain are by far the best 1-2 punch, when you bandwagon the S.F. Giants, so you're mad.

 

 

Also, I mentioned Curt Shilling as a hypothetical person to help make my point.

 

 

 

It's not my fault that all of the Boston related sports teams are good, so if people think they are the best, everyone will say Boston fans are being biased. .

You contradicted yourself by saying your argument isn't really laughable. I was laughing for part of it.

 

Bandwagoning? I was born in California, I've followed the Giants since I was 5. Name one duo with a better ERA, or more wins coming from less offense, or even more wins for that matter. There aren't any. Strikeouts? I don't think there's a single duo with more. Lincecum can't be touched sometimes, in about a third of his starts in fact. He throws more complete games (and shutouts) than anyone I know of.

 

Yeah, Boston has good teams. Whoopdie-do. The Bruins aren't the best, the Red Sox aren't the best (6 straight losses, ouch. might now even make the playoffs if the Rays keep it up, or the Rangers get hot, but I doubt it), and the Patriots aren't the best. Yeah, the Pats. There won't be a title this year.

 

To say that Josh Beckett and Jon Lester are a better 1-2 punch than Linceum and Cain is ridiculous. They aren't even better than Verlander and Jackson, or maybe even Jackson and Porcello. Nah, I'll give you that one. Forget Porcello. To say that Beckett, whoever the other 2 guys were, and Schilling is better than Lincecum and the other 3 guys is stupid. I mean Curt Schilling. The guy is how old? He's done. He's a HOFer, he's done.

 

Homer.