AboveLegit Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 It's plain and simple, LeBron still needs help. I was watching Inside the NBA with Kenny, CWebb, Charles, and Ernie last night after the Laker game, and they had just finished up watching the highlights of the Celtics-Cavs game. Everyone gave their thoughts on the game, everything I had already detected from watching Cleveland play tonight, but Charles brought up a point I never really focused on. This team is in dire need of another player who can play one on one basketball. The trade for Shaq was great, I'm already admitting my mistakes when I said that trade was overrated, I was completely wrong. He doesn't clog up the paint for LBJ, matter of fact, LBJ doesn't even need the paint now, his jumper has drastically improved. Yes, the Shaq trade did benefit the Cavs offense by bringing in a player who can create for himself, but that is only for 28-33 minutes a game. The rest of the game we're seeing 1 on 5 basketball, the Cleveland offense is completely hopeless without Bron and Shaq. Mo Williams is just horrible, he can't create off of anything, Varejao manages to make the occasional 10-15 foot jumper, but that is off a LeBron double team, and Anthony Parker is strictly a screen and roll player. Getting Delonte West may be a good sign for Cleveland, but it doesn't fill in their holes. He too, is not a one on one player. In the playoffs, this will hurt the Cavs, though LeBron will be playing at a ridiculously high level, Shaq will be fatigued, will be getting less and less minutes, and the offense will become completely stagnant whenever LBJ takes his small break. They need an experienced shooting guard who can play like an All Star when needed to, or else this team will not win a championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamerGuy Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well, there are some rumors floating around that Rip Hamilton could be traded. I wonder if Cleveland would be willing to put something together to try and get him, even though their season just started. He would be a great fit in Cleveland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Well, there are some rumors floating around that Rip Hamilton could be traded. I wonder if Cleveland would be willing to put something together to try and get him, even though their season just started. He would be a great fit in Cleveland. I can see Mike Redd getting traded too. Both of them are similar players that would be great fits in Cleveland. The Cavs should trade Big Z for an athletic guy up front as well. I don't think the Shaq/Big Z combo is going to work at all. Udonis Haslem was an example of a great guy to have next to Shaq. With Big Z expiring someone might be willing to give up a nice talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Wow, I never heard of those rumors Kairu, but that would be huge for Cleveland. If I was Danny Ferry, I would seriously look into it, I could careless about how early it is into the season. I haven't seen much of Redd, so I can't truly comment on his game other than his three point shooting, but Rip would be a great fit. He can hit the perimeter shot, and with Shaq commanding attention in the paint, he would rack up points quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 LeBron still needs help? Were you expecting Shaq, Parker, and Moon to gel with this team on opening night and blow everyone away? This team is built for the long haul. They need to play together for a few games before you can make an assumption like this. If they are 10-5 thru 15, I'd say they're on a good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Michael Redd would be instant finals for this team IMO. Anyone who thinks this team is getting out of the East AND beating the Lakers without a drastic upgrade at SG is reaching, the Magic and Celtics will both be better IMO. I completely agree they need help, and the only attainable player/star of the top of my head they HAVE to get is Redd, and if they trade Z for him they MUST get Z back afterwards. Redd would be the number one choice, Rip is nice but is definitely not what the Cavs need. Rip is great off the screens and getting open but the Cavs need a guy to take the load off LeBron, they need a legitimate second option scorer. A 1A scorer so to speak, Mo and Shaq are not that and I'm not even sure Rip is due his lack of ability to carry the load offensively, Redd can be a guy who averages 25 PPG over a season. I think you were correct in saying the Shaq deal was overrated. He was brought in to defend D12 plain and simple, I don't even think he is a drastic upgrade over Z to be honest except when they need a big body down low, specifically on D12. Z nailing those jumpers off passes from LeBron is just as effective as throwing the ball to Shaq down low. The only thing this deal does is improve their post defense which will be helpful in the playoffs. I think the best possible start for the Cavs would be a bad one (record wise) this year, that would force management to use Z's/Shaq's, expiring unlike they did with Wally last year. Getting Redd is absolutely necessary, they probably should have done everything possible to try and get Vince last year. We saw 2 stud wings on the Nets go for very little, and the Cavs just sat by and watch this happen, they probably could have had either of those guys at the deadline last year. (Of course I am just speculating I am not an NBA insider). The Cavs have put a bunch of good role players and second rate stars around LeBron, all this team needs now is their own "Gasol" so to speak, that guy that put the Lakers over the top, and I have no doubt Redd could be that guy if healthy. If you have to get raped to get Redd, you do it regardless as far as I am concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 (edited) Are you being serious in saying this team is built for the long haul? LOL EDIT_ Wait what the [expletive]? They had Z and Shaq on the floor together last night? If so LOL. Edited October 28, 2009 by travesy3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Z and Shaq are in the top 10 of centers. We have two of the top 10 centers. They'll split nights where some won't play at all. You're telling me that won't help them be more fresh for the playoffs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I was LOLing if they were on the floor together. Your team would get destroyed on the pick and roll. And your team isn't built for the long haul, the only 2 pieces long haul there are Mo and LeBron and that is only if LeBron re-signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 LeBron still needs help? Were you expecting Shaq, Parker, and Moon to gel with this team on opening night and blow everyone away? This team is built for the long haul. They need to play together for a few games before you can make an assumption like this. If they are 10-5 thru 15, I'd say they're on a good start.What Long Haul are you referring to? A few months? Z is retiring in a matter of years, Shaq has 3 years left presumably, and their best player is not even guaranteed a new contract due to his possibly interest in another team. It doesn't take long before you become acclimated to this offense. Mike Brown is not running a stable system there, so what adapting are you talking about? Shaq has to do what he did in LA and Miami, this isn't the PHX Suns offense, where he needs to actually learn the offense, this is the offense he is built for. Moon barely gets involved in the offense, not because he's adapted to it, but because he's nothing but a defender and a slasher. Moon is in a very similar shooter, the one difference is he's seeing less and less shots. If you honestly are telling me LBJ doesn't need help, you are much too cocky about this roster. Z and Shaq are in the top 10 of centers. We have two of the top 10 centers. They'll split nights where some won't play at all. You're telling me that won't help them be more fresh for the playoffs?Z and Shaq are also one of the most un-athletic players in the league, and one of the oldest players in the league. They're horrible on the pick and roll, and until they learn how to play defense beyond the paint (for Z it would be playing defense in general), they will go no where against the Celtics of Magic in a seven game series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 I was LOLing if they were on the floor together. Your team would get destroyed on the pick and roll. And your team isn't built for the long haul, the only 2 pieces long haul there are Mo and LeBron and that is only if LeBron re-signs.Hell, I wouldn't even say Mo's built for this team's future, he's not exactly the type of player you focus on building upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Mo is a good piece if he is going to be a 3rd option with a franchise player like LeBron. Mo is a good player but people thinking he was a second option on a championship team were/are delusional. Lol at acting like once Parker and Moon 'gel' your team will be improved, Parker probably isn't even better than Delonte at this point, he is just a bigger defender which is nice at SG and SF if needed. Moon is garbage, I am glad he is no longer a Raptor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted October 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 The problem is, they still heavily rely on Mo to generate some offense when LBJ is not in the game. and he is arguably the second option within the offense due to Shaq's level of playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Ya that is why they need Redd. Just because Mo isn't a second option doesn't mean he isn't a valuable piece to a championship puzzle. He is still a skilled player who can drop 20 any night, but he can't be relied on to be a consistent distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 Z and Shaq are in the top 10 of centers. We have two of the top 10 centers. They'll split nights where some won't play at all. You're telling me that won't help them be more fresh for the playoffs?DwightPauBynumAmareShaqDalembertBogutJeffersonYaoDavid Lee all better than Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owner Real Deal Posted October 28, 2009 Owner Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 DwightPauBynumAmareShaqDalembertBogutJeffersonYaoDavid Lee all better than ZAll but Dalembert. Sammy D is a train wreck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren2ThaG Posted October 28, 2009 Report Share Posted October 28, 2009 All but Dalembert. Sammy D is a train wreck. kaman / horford / perkins / biedrens / okafor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted October 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Now you have it, LBJ with a triple double in a loss. This isn't the first time I saw this from him in his career. Not many players can say they got a triple double in a loss, LeBron is one of them. He really needs another scorer, and I don't know if Delonte is the immediate answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taber Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 The Cavs did an awful job of building around Lebron from day one. Instead of getting other players that could grow around him as he grew, they tried to win right away and now Lebron is stuck with a team full of older players or guys that just don't work. They should have sacrificed the first couple of years with Lebron by not trying to win immediately and filling the roster with other young players who could bond and grow with Lebron. I really feel Cleveland is in a spot now where every year we are going to see them trying to "retool" to make sure Lebron has guys around them, unlike other great teams where they got a core and just added role guys around that core. Not sure how they can change that though, and its too bad for Cleveland because they have arguably the best player in the league, this is why I could see Lebron leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 The only way to build around LeBron is FA, you can't draft because he will always have you in the playoffs and out of the lotto. While I agree they made some bad signings, LeBron backed them, he wanted most of the guys that were signed, to be signed. Also Hughes was putting up major numbers for the Wiz, not to mention the Cavs got [expletive]ed by Boozer AND Redd. I do completely agree with you though, this team is so scared of losing LeBron they will constantly try and put a quick fix around him in order to keep the team competitive. LeBron's trip dub tonight was so hollow, I hardly noticed him all game, felt like he wasn't even trying. He played really bad, the team just stood around and watched him I have no idea how he managed to get 10 assists, probably during that stint where the Cavs hit like 6 threes in a short period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taber Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 No I agree you can't build around the draft now but I think in the first couple years they could have gone a different route. Yes they got screwed over in FA but still lately they have been making so many moves trying to get this quick fix, Ben Wallace, Mo Williams, Shaq, West, Wally etc, all of those guys are just role players. Lebron just doesn't have that guy who can take pressure off him and he may never have that. All he needs is a solid second option, thats the great part is he doesn't need another star, just a good player, maybe even a third option, then they just need a bunch of role players around that who can give something. Thats easier said then done though. This is why I feel Lebron will leave, not sure where, but to a place where he has a chance to have those other guys around him because in Cleveland I am not sure he will ever get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Check my Stats Posted October 29, 2009 Report Share Posted October 29, 2009 Like I said, it's not as though the Cavs didn't 'try' to get a 2nd option, Boozer stabbed them in the back and Redd decided to walk to Milwaukee at the last minute for 1 million more annually. They got screwed by those two so they didn't want to walk away from FA empty handed and signed Z (re-signed), Hughes (who had an amazing year in his contract year), Marshall and Damon Jones. Where will LeBron have a better chance to have good players around him? New York? They have sucked for over half a decade now and getting LeBron will just make them average unless they get him AND JJ, Amare or someone. New Jersey? They have nice youth but LeBron wants to win now, not 4 years from now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 LeBron doesn't need help anymore. We got Mo last year and went 66-16. I think that entails having help with 21 more wins than the previous year. They start 0-2...don't panic and say they don't have help all the sudden. We started 1-2 last year. We'll click soon in one game and then the hate will decline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AboveLegit Posted October 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 LeBron doesn't need help anymore. We got Mo last year and went 66-16. I think that entails having help with 21 more wins than the previous year. They start 0-2...don't panic and say they don't have help all the sudden. We started 1-2 last year. We'll click soon in one game and then the hate will decline.lol, I'm sorry, but just because we're talking about what Cleveland needs, don't assume we're hating. I understand you're trying to defend your team, but it's time to face facts. Last season, LeBron didn't have to score 38 points in the opening game, following it up with a triple double the next game. When you lose both of those games, it's clearly evident there are some issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleveland's Finest Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Are you serious? You base your opinion off the opening game? Do you realize LeBron has never played with a true center in his life? And that Anthony Parker hasn't either and LeBron's never played in a game with Shaq, AP, etc...This is something that they need to get used to. One game, let alone the opening game, doesn't define a season. Yesterday LeBron had a triple double and less than 30. It was a tied game in the 3rd so they did show signs of clicking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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