Michael Jordan Is Over-Rated

[moeroadkill]

I think ECN has made some good points. MJ was 1-9 without Pippen in the playoffs, Kobe won 3 playoff games in one season with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Devean George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Vujacic, and some other rookies.

 

I dont agree with everything ECN is saying though. MJ had 35+ ppg on 50 % and he did it with ease, Kobe barely manged to get 35 ppg in his best season on 45 % shooting. Yeah the competition wasnt as good, but he still did it. It was only like the mid 90's were talking about, and even without Pippen MJ still dominated by himself. If your trying to say Kobe makes his teammates better then MJ does, yeah you might have a point. I mean, Kobe did do better with less. MJ playing alongside the greatest rebounder ever, and a top 50 NBA player. Kobe having an all star reserve on his team who most people and people on here would admittedly say he is soft.

 

I would also like to point out, 81/62 in 3, 50 in 4 straight >>> MJ.

 

didnt know shaq was and all star reserve and say he was soft.

[Flash]

I think ECN has made some good points. MJ was 1-9 without Pippen in the playoffs, Kobe won 3 playoff games in one season with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Devean George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Vujacic, and some other rookies.

 

I dont agree with everything ECN is saying though. MJ had 35+ ppg on 50 % and he did it with ease, Kobe barely manged to get 35 ppg in his best season on 45 % shooting. Yeah the competition wasnt as good, but he still did it. It was only like the mid 90's were talking about, and even without Pippen MJ still dominated by himself. If your trying to say Kobe makes his teammates better then MJ does, yeah you might have a point. I mean, Kobe did do better with less. MJ playing alongside the greatest rebounder ever, and a top 50 NBA player. Kobe having an all star reserve on his team who most people and people on here would admittedly say he is soft.

 

I would also like to point out, 81/62 in 3, 50 in 4 straight >>> MJ.

 

Kobe against the Suns is true but the Lakers still managed an epic choke job and lost in 5 the following season. Let's also not forget, when Jordan was losing playoff series it was to the Celtics teams of the 80's and to the Bad Boys while carrying those Bulls teams by himself. Those 2 teams where among the best in NBA history.

 

Their stats in the playoffs aren't even comparable either. Jordan wins by a landslide.

 

The skill argument doesn't really make any sense either. A lot of guys are more "skilled". If Kobe's more skilled then so is Chris Paul.

 

And if Jordan had the Shaq that Kobe had then they Bulls might have gone 82-0 instead of 72-10.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Flash

[kingfish]

didnt know shaq was and all star reserve and say he was soft.

 

09 championship buddy.

[kingfish]

Kobe against the Suns is true but the Lakers still managed an epic choke job and lost in 5 the following season. Let's also not forget, when Jordan was losing playoff series it was to the Celtics teams of the 80's and to the Bad Boys while carrying those Bulls teams by himself. Those 2 teams where among the best in NBA history.

 

Their stats in the playoffs aren't even comparable either. Jordan wins by a landslide.

 

The skill argument doesn't really make any sense either. A lot of guys are more "skilled". If Kobe's more skilled then so is Chris Paul.

 

And if Jordan had the Shaq that Kobe had then they Bulls might have gone 82-0 instead of 72-10.

Jordan and Shaq would NOT have co existed. I know Kobe and Shaq had a fallout, but they co existed on 3 titles. MJ would continue to get his and ignore Shaq, he was in no way shape or form as good a facilitator as Kobe was during that 3 peat. Hes lucky Pippen was so willing to be a sidekick.

 

As far as the stats part, yeah I pretty much already said I agree with that.

Edited July 5, 2009 by kingfish

[EastCoastNiner]

Kobe against the Suns is true but the Lakers still managed an epic choke job and lost in 5 the following season. Let's also not forget, when Jordan was losing playoff series it was to the Celtics teams of the 80's and to the Bad Boys while carrying those Bulls teams by himself. Those 2 teams where among the best in NBA history.

 

Their stats in the playoffs aren't even comparable either. Jordan wins by a landslide.

 

The skill argument doesn't really make any sense either. A lot of guys are more "skilled". If Kobe's more skilled then so is Chris Paul.

 

And if Jordan had the Shaq that Kobe had then they Bulls might have gone 82-0 instead of 72-10.

 

Here's my problem with the first statement.

 

Yes, early on in his career he lost to some pretty good teams, but some of those teams were on the decline.

 

You can't always use stats from these totally different era's, especially when Michael Jordan had the ball in his hands pretty much every damn play.

 

I'm just wondering, do you really think CP# is more skilled than Kobe Bryan and Michael Jordan?

[moeroadkill]

 

09 championship buddy.

and im saying what about shaq

[moeroadkill]

Here's my problem with the first statement.

 

Yes, early on in his career he lost to some pretty good teams, but some of those teams were on the decline.

 

You can't always use stats from these totally different era's, especially when Michael Jordan had the ball in his hands pretty much every damn play.

 

I'm just wondering, do you really think CP# is more skilled than Kobe Bryan and Michael Jordan?

why was that?

[EastCoastNiner]

why was that?

 

Obviously because he was extremely talented, and I'm not denying that, but the amount of time he had the ball was probably a more than Kobe Bryant, therefore making it easier to get better stats.

[JWaLL]

So shocking that kingfish would agree that Kobe is better....

[EastCoastNiner]

So shocking that kingfish would agree that Kobe is better....

 

So shocking you haven't add anything to this thread. .

[JWaLL]

So shocking you haven't add anything to this thread. .

 

Look at the first few pages buddy. I smacked your ass around in that debate. You had no comeback besides saying I wasn't answering your post LOL which I was.

[EastCoastNiner]

Look at the first few pages buddy. I smacked your ass around in that debate. You had no comeback besides saying I wasn't answering your post LOL which I was.

 

All you listed were PPG, APG, RPG, ect.

 

I adressed that point multiple times, whereas you just said "You didn't show anything".

 

 

Go and look at the previous posts, or I can show you your posts.

 

 

BTW your whole argument, which is just a lists of stats like you admitted yourself by saying the only way to compare players is by stats and accomplishments when everybody knows that's not true. .

Edited July 5, 2009 by EastCoastNiner

[JWaLL]

I also talked about accomplishment in the playoffs and the championships..... What kind of proof are you looking for exactly? Your stubbornness is just pissing me off now. No one here agrees with you except for that kingfish kid. I don't know why this topic is still open, and I don't know why you are still posting in it...

[bigdog17k]

ECN is you're typical internet troll

[JWaLL]

ECN is you're typical internet troll

 

Amen.

[moeroadkill]

i dont know if u have said this or not and i cant be effed reading over it again so..

do u think kobe is better than MJ?

 

Obviously because he was extremely talented, and I'm not denying that, but the amount of time he had the ball was probably a more than Kobe Bryant, therefore making it easier to get better stats.

 

okay so MJ had the better teammates i think u said that (or someone else, whatever.) and yet he still had the ball in his hands? that alone says how valuable he was to his team and teammates. also the Lakers lowest winning % was when Kobe averages 30 points a game.

 

K.B. Stats: 25.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 4.6 apg 1.5 spg 0.5 bpg .455 FG% .340 3P% .840 FT%

M.J. Stats: 30.1 ppg 6.2 rpg 5.3 apg 2.4 spg 0.8 bpg .497 FG% .327 3P% .835 FT%

i look at that and dont see any major deference between the two

 

also someone said that MJ wouldnt have put up with having shaq on his team he would want to have the ball at all times?

MJ was a winner and knew what it took from him and his teammates to win. MJ loved to win and no doubt would he make it work with shaq. why do you think kobe is always compared to michael, their desire to win? kobe was seen selfish before shaq entered the picture and all of a sudden he was the 2nd man he knew wat it took to win if that means stepping down, so be it. michael would have done the same.

[JWaLL]

i dont know if u have said this or not and i cant be effed reading over it again so..

do u think kobe is better than MJ?

 

 

 

okay so MJ had the better teammates i think u said that (or someone else, whatever.) and yet he still had the ball in his hands? that alone says how valuable he was to his team and teammates. also the Lakers lowest winning % was when Kobe averages 30 points a game.

 

K.B. Stats: 25.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 4.6 apg 1.5 spg 0.5 bpg .455 FG% .340 3P% .840 FT%

M.J. Stats: 30.1 ppg 6.2 rpg 5.3 apg 2.4 spg 0.8 bpg .497 FG% .327 3P% .835 FT%

i look at that and dont see any major deference between the two

 

also someone said that MJ wouldnt have put up with having shaq on his team he would want to have the ball at all times?

MJ was a winner and knew what it took from him and his teammates to win. MJ loved to win and no doubt would he make it work with shaq. why do you think kobe is always compared to michael, their desire to win? kobe was seen selfish before shaq entered the picture and all of a sudden he was the 2nd man he knew wat it took to win if that means stepping down, so be it. michael would have done the same.

 

The bolded phrase alone, shows that ECN has contradicted himself in so many ways to the point where this argument is going no where. Good find Moe.

Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe and always will be. Now gtfo ECN.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Gil-Zero

[Diesel]

Scottie Pippen had a better career record than Michael Jordan, and only had one losing season, which was in 2003-2004 with a young Chicago Bulls team, while during the 5 seasons that Michael Jordan played without Scottie Pippen, he posted.........5 losing seasons, missed the playoffs twice, and posted an OUTSTANDING playoff record of.........1-9.

 

That's because the Bulls teams were less talented in the 80s than those teams in the 90s which was when Pippen started actually playing. Look at MJ in 87(he was eventually swept by the Celtics in the first round. MJ averaged 37 PPG oon 48% shooting(Kobe has never had that high of a PPG average or a shooting %). Now those are amazing numbers and MJ did everything he could, but he still was swept. What's a guy supposed to do? Average 40 per game? MJ is not at fault for his playoff failure without Pippen. The only two players worth a damn on that team were Charles Oakley and John Paxson(to an extent). He was extremely overrated as a shooter too(Paxson) as he only averaged .6 3 pointers made per game. MJ didn't have any real support early on in his career. Oakley was a very good player, but your going to need more to compete against teams like the Celtics that have 3 future hall of famers playing all at a very high level of their carers.

 

Some of Michael Jordan's defensive awards were well deserved, but later on in his career, he didn't always guard the best guard on the opposing team.

 

Pooh Richardson lit his [expletive] up, and Phil Jackson placed Scottie Pippen on Damon Stoudemire because Michael Jordan was too slow and couldn't hang with him.

 

BTW, there were better defender's on Michael Jordan's own team when he was winning awards, and Ron Harper was one of them.

 

Kobe doesn't guard the best guard on the opposing team any more either so I don't see what your aiming at. MJ was a much better defender than Kobe though. I'd like to see Kobe win a DPOY award as a guard. Something only MJ and Gary Payton have done. Jordan was one of if not the best on ball defender in his younger days(until his retirement in 93) and noone was better at playing the passing lanes.

 

Also I'm curious when did Pooh Richardson "light his [expletive] up".

 

Kobe Bryant is more skilled offensively than Michael Jordan, and Michael Jordan got away with a lot of [expletive] that he wouldn't get away with in today's game.

 

That's because the rules were different and MJ dominated scoring more than Kobe ever has. Just because Jordan doesn't have an individual game of at 81 points, or has a streak of 40 point games like Kobe does doesn't mean Kobe is a better scorer. Other than Jordan's rookie year in the league he averaged 30+ PPG in the playoffs every single year of his career that he played in the playoffs then. He turned his game up to another level. Even in his rookie year he averaged 28 PPG which is still better than Kobe's 25.0 PPG average in the playoffs.

 

It's tough to compare stats from different era's, but Michael Jordan was a complete ball-hog and had made negative comments about his teammates not taking a particular shot because they weren't good enough.

 

I'm just throwing this out there.

 

There were six expansion teams that entered the league during Michael Jordan's prime, and that is part of the watered down competition he faced.

 

Kobe has been portrayed as a ball hog as well before he got Gasol on his team. It's called taking over the game because your better than your teammates. Kobe made negative comments about his teammates as well. He ran Shaq out of town, was labeled "uncoachable" by Phil Jackson(someone who coached them both) at one point in his career, and even made fun of Bynum on a camera.

 

As for the expansion teams how many of them did he play in the playoffs. Also notice his numbers went up in the playoffs? Nice try though. Jordan didn't inflate his numbers from poor competition. He simply stepped his game up against better competition which is what the great ones do.

 

I think ECN has made some good points. MJ was 1-9 without Pippen in the playoffs, Kobe won 3 playoff games in one season with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, Devean George, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Vujacic, and some other rookies.

 

I dont agree with everything ECN is saying though. MJ had 35+ ppg on 50 % and he did it with ease, Kobe barely manged to get 35 ppg in his best season on 45 % shooting. Yeah the competition wasnt as good, but he still did it. It was only like the mid 90's were talking about, and even without Pippen MJ still dominated by himself. If your trying to say Kobe makes his teammates better then MJ does, yeah you might have a point. I mean, Kobe did do better with less. MJ playing alongside the greatest rebounder ever, and a top 50 NBA player. Kobe having an all star reserve on his team who most people and people on here would admittedly say he is soft.

 

I would also like to point out, 81/62 in 3, 50 in 4 straight >>> MJ.

 

Wait so the 80s competition wasn't as good? Back then in the league there were less team's, but nearly every team had an all-star or multiple all-stars on it. There wasn't any team like the Bobcats or Oklahoma City Thunder to rape on a nightly basis. There was the Lakers/Celtics teams with 3 HOFers, great Sixers teams, Bad Boy Pistons, and a plethora of dominant bigmen not just one or two.

 

MJ essentially won 6 titles in a row seeing as how the two times the Bulls didn't win were because

A) Jordan didn't play in that season

or

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif Jordan came back at the end of the season and for the playoffs not as prepared as he could've been.

 

But as far as full seasons with Jordan he won 6 in a row. Good luck seeing Kobe do anything with that magnitude not to mention winning Finals MVP all 6 times.

 

33.4 PPG in the playoffs > 25.0 PPG

6 MVPs > 1 MVP

6 Finals MVPs > 1 Finals MVP

1 DPOY > 0 DPOY

need I continue?

 

Jordan and Shaq would NOT have co existed. I know Kobe and Shaq had a fallout, but they co existed on 3 titles. MJ would continue to get his and ignore Shaq, he was in no way shape or form as good a facilitator as Kobe was during that 3 peat. Hes lucky Pippen was so willing to be a sidekick.

 

As far as the stats part, yeah I pretty much already said I agree with that.

 

Prime Jordan and Shaq on the same team would win 70+ games every year and the championship as long as their healthy.

[EastCoastNiner]

That's because the Bulls teams were less talented in the 80s than those teams in the 90s which was when Pippen started actually playing. Look at MJ in 87(he was eventually swept by the Celtics in the first round. MJ averaged 37 PPG oon 48% shooting(Kobe has never had that high of a PPG average or a shooting %). Now those are amazing numbers and MJ did everything he could, but he still was swept. What's a guy supposed to do? Average 40 per game? MJ is not at fault for his playoff failure without Pippen. The only two players worth a damn on that team were Charles Oakley and John Paxson(to an extent). He was extremely overrated as a shooter too(Paxson) as he only averaged .6 3 pointers made per game. MJ didn't have any real support early on in his career. Oakley was a very good player, but your going to need more to compete against teams like the Celtics that have 3 future hall of famers playing all at a very high level of their carers.

 

This isn't a direct comparison to Kobe Bryant because it would not be fair for obvious reasons, but Michael Jordan had a losing record his first three seasons in the NBA.

 

Obviouisly Kobe Bryant wasn't going to when he entered the league because of Shaq and the very good Lakers teams then.

 

However, when LeBron James entered the NBA in 2003, the Cleveland Cavaliers had 5 losing seasons in a row, and a dismal 17-65 record the year before LeBron James entered the NBA.

 

In LeBron's first season his team improved by 18 wins, and the following season, they had a winning record, and after that, they made the ECF.

 

My point is, you can't just make excuses everytime something doesn't go in Michael Jordan's favor.

 

Kobe Bryant has had one losing season, and that was without Shaq, and a dismal offensive cast.

 

This comparison wasn't meant to be to compare Michael Jordan to LeBron James, but to show how Michael Jordan couldn't lead his team to a winning record for three straight seasons.

 

 

 

Kobe doesn't guard the best guard on the opposing team any more either so I don't see what your aiming at. MJ was a much better defender than Kobe though. I'd like to see Kobe win a DPOY award as a guard. Something only MJ and Gary Payton have done. Jordan was one of if not the best on ball defender in his younger days(until his retirement in 93) and noone was better at playing the passing lanes.

 

Also I'm curious when did Pooh Richardson "light his [expletive] up".

 

 

I'm not saying that Kobe Bryant guards the best guard on the opposing team anymore, nor did I say that Michael Jordan was a poor defender.

 

I'm simply saying that as his career went on, he became visibly slower, and received awards based on his reputation, and not his actual skill.

 

During his early-middle career, he was probably one of the "Too 5" defensive guards in NBA history.

 

 

 

That's because the rules were different and MJ dominated scoring more than Kobe ever has. Just because Jordan doesn't have an individual game of at 81 points, or has a streak of 40 point games like Kobe does doesn't mean Kobe is a better scorer. Other than Jordan's rookie year in the league he averaged 30+ PPG in the playoffs every single year of his career that he played in the playoffs then. He turned his game up to another level. Even in his rookie year he averaged 28 PPG which is still better than Kobe's 25.0 PPG average in the playoffs.

 

You can argue that the rules were different, and actually BENEFITED Michael Jordan, which I believe is the case.

 

You know better than to say that just because Michael Jordan doesn't have the same big numbers in individual games doesn't mean Kobe is a better scorer, when in fact scoring more PPG does not necessarily make you a better scorer either.

 

Michael Jordan was option #1 as everybody knows, and Kobe Bryant was option #2 in terms of scoring, so obviously he wasn't going to score as many points, but I feel that Kobe Bryants ability to get any shot off and overall offensive skill-set is better than Michael Jordan's.

 

 

 

Kobe has been portrayed as a ball hog as well before he got Gasol on his team. It's called taking over the game because your better than your teammates. Kobe made negative comments about his teammates as well. He ran Shaq out of town, was labeled "uncoachable" by Phil Jackson(someone who coached them both) at one point in his career, and even made fun of Bynum on a camera.

 

He was portrayed as a ball hog because he HAD to be, and there is nothing wrong with that, just like there is nothing wrong with Michael Jordan taking over a game.

 

I disagreed with Kobe Bryant and his comments about Andrew Bynum, but he didn't say that he wasn't going to let another teammate shoot because he didn't think he could make the shot.

 

Also, I believe it was Doug Collins, but I could be wrong about that has talked with Michael Jordan and said that he talked [expletive] about his teammates, although I really don't care about that crap a lot.

 

I'll try and find the information on that, as I am not exactly sure about the person that talked to him, but it was a very prominent coach/analyst.

 

As for the expansion teams how many of them did he play in the playoffs. Also notice his numbers went up in the playoffs? Nice try though. Jordan didn't inflate his numbers from poor competition. He simply stepped his game up against better competition which is what the great ones do.

 

Yes, I know that Michael Jordan stepped his game up in the playoffs, just like Kobe Bryant has done multiple times, but once again, stats don't tell the whole story when talking about a player stepping their game up.

 

Also, I never said that he played those teams in the playoffs, but the expansion of teams watered down the overall quality of the NBA.

 

Wait so the 80s competition wasn't as good? Back then in the league there were less team's, but nearly every team had an all-star or multiple all-stars on it. There wasn't any team like the Bobcats or Oklahoma City Thunder to rape on a nightly basis. There was the Lakers/Celtics teams with 3 HOFers, great Sixers teams, Bad Boy Pistons, and a plethora of dominant bigmen not just one or two.

 

Lets get real right now, the Celtis, Pistons, and Celtics were aging, and they never played the Lakers until the Finals when the Bulls beat and older Lakers team.

 

And, I'm glad you mentioned "Big Men" because teams with them gave Michael Jordan an extremely hard time, and he only beat Shaq once, and never beat Hakeem in the playoffs, so I don't see your point.

 

 

 

MJ essentially won 6 titles in a row seeing as how the two times the Bulls didn't win were because

A) Jordan didn't play in that season

or

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif Jordan came back at the end of the season and for the playoffs not as prepared as he could've been.

 

 

I'm sorry, but this statement is completely and utterly false.

 

Michael Jordan had foot surgery during the 1985-1986 season, and played only 18 games.

 

However, he scored 63 points in once game during the playoffs that year, so don't give me the bull-[expletive] about Michael Jordan not being as prepared as he could of been because you know that it's bull-[expletive].

 

However, in the 1994-1995 playoffs, Michael Jordan had a 55 point game, but still managed to lose the series, to a team with a legitimate "Big Man".

 

 

Michael Jordan had Horrace Grant as an inside presence in the early 1990's, and the Chicago Bulls won three Championships with him.

 

However, when Horrace Gran left for the Magic in the 1994-1995 season, the same playoffs where Michael Jordan dropped 55 points, the Chicago Bulls could not beat the Orlando Magic because they had no interior presence.

 

Then, in 1995, guess who came along to provide an inside presence, defense, and rebounding, that the Chicago Bulls had had before Horrace Grant left, but not the season he left for the Orlando Magic when the Chicago Bulls lost to them?

 

Oh, a player by the name of Dennis Rodman.

 

Seriously, it's no coincidence that the year that Michael Jordan still put up big playoff numbers, but lacked an interior "Big Man", the Chicago Bulls got their asses handed to them by Shaq and the Orlando Magic.

 

 

Horrace Grant was extremely quick, and was a BIG component of the Chicago Bulls "Trap" defense.

 

 

But as far as full seasons with Jordan he won 6 in a row. Good luck seeing Kobe do anything with that magnitude not to mention winning Finals MVP all 6 times.

 

33.4 PPG in the playoffs > 25.0 PPG

6 MVPs > 1 MVP

6 Finals MVPs > 1 Finals MVP

1 DPOY > 0 DPOY

need I continue?

 

I'm not arguing that Kobe Bryant has more accalades than Michael Jordan, but you know that stats don't tell the whole story, and that Kobe Bryant should probably have a few more MVP's.

 

 

Prime Jordan and Shaq on the same team would win 70+ games every year and the championship as long as their healthy.

 

I never mentioned anything about this, but if you're using it as an example, I disagree that they would have in the 2000's, but would have in the 1990's, just as Kobe Bryant would have if he was with Shaq then if Kobe Bryant was in his prime, not his younger years.

[EastCoastNiner]

The bolded phrase alone, shows that ECN has contradicted himself in so many ways to the point where this argument is going no where. Good find Moe.

Jordan >>>>>>>> Kobe and always will be. Now gtfo ECN.

 

I never never made the statement you idiot. .

 

Maybe you can try and make an argument. .

[Smoke]

People are entitled to their own opinions but at least you can give some facts and not just your stubbornness ECN.

[EastCoastNiner]

People are entitled to their own opinions but at least you can give some facts and not just your stubbornness ECN.

 

I don't really care if people agree, but at least it brings up a lot of discussion on "otr", and no, I did not just make this for discussion, I do feel like Kobe Bryant is the better player.

[EastCoastNiner]

i dont know if u have said this or not and i cant be effed reading over it again so..

do u think kobe is better than MJ?

 

 

 

okay so MJ had the better teammates i think u said that (or someone else, whatever.) and yet he still had the ball in his hands? that alone says how valuable he was to his team and teammates. also the Lakers lowest winning % was when Kobe averages 30 points a game.

 

K.B. Stats: 25.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 4.6 apg 1.5 spg 0.5 bpg .455 FG% .340 3P% .840 FT%

M.J. Stats: 30.1 ppg 6.2 rpg 5.3 apg 2.4 spg 0.8 bpg .497 FG% .327 3P% .835 FT%

i look at that and dont see any major deference between the two

 

also someone said that MJ wouldnt have put up with having shaq on his team he would want to have the ball at all times?

MJ was a winner and knew what it took from him and his teammates to win. MJ loved to win and no doubt would he make it work with shaq. why do you think kobe is always compared to michael, their desire to win? kobe was seen selfish before shaq entered the picture and all of a sudden he was the 2nd man he knew wat it took to win if that means stepping down, so be it. michael would have done the same.

 

I don't think I was the person who said that, but your statement about Kobe Bryant being selfish before Shaq entered the picture makes no sense considering they joined the Lakers around the same time, and Kobe didn't really start until his third season with the Lakers.

[Flash]

You wanna talk about having a dominant big man? I'd say Shaq and Pau Gasol are two very good big men to have on your side so lets not pretend Kobe won these ships without good bigs on his teams.

 

Also, Jordan came back midway through the 94-95 season and got that team from being a .500 squad to reaching the second round. How much more can you expect from a guy who spent a year and a half away from the game? The mere fact that you would expect that from Jordan tells me that he is the GOAT because that pressure would never fall on anyone, not even Kobe. I think that if the Bulls would've had Jordan for that entire season they win the title.

 

I just don't understand how you can say Kobe is better than Michael. As complete a player as Kobe is he still can't touch MJ in my opinion.

[EastCoastNiner]

You wanna talk about having a dominant big man? I'd say Shaq and Pau Gasol are two very good big men to have on your side so lets not pretend Kobe won these ships without good bigs on his teams.

 

Also, Jordan came back midway through the 94-95 season and got that team from being a .500 squad to reaching the second round. How much more can you expect from a guy who spent a year and a half away from the game? The mere fact that you would expect that from Jordan tells me that he is the GOAT because that pressure would never fall on anyone, not even Kobe. I think that if the Bulls would've had Jordan for that entire season they win the title.

 

I just don't understand how you can say Kobe is better than Michael. As complete a player as Kobe is he still can't touch MJ in my opinion.

 

I hate when people use the excuse that he didn't play a full season when he was scored 55+ in the playoffs.

 

It makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

Also, Kobe Bryant has been fortunate to have good "Big Men", but he has still done more with less compared to Michael Jordan when he didn't have his "Championship" talent.