Real Deal

I'm changing my pick to Tim Duncan, because I don't think he was an all-star this season, and definitely not a starter. He's got a career low in points, rebounds and nearly field goal percentage (second worst), and even shot attempts, and free throw attempts.

Jordan is with him. Bryant has missed 11,358 shots in his career. Jordan missed 12,345. Sadly, Jordan reached that number in 14 seasons (combining the two partial seasons he played, or else it would be 15).

Deron Williams. He's not the best PG in the NBA. EDIT: Changing my pick to Tim Duncan. See why in a few posts.

Before I start explaining anything...do not abuse this privilege. You guys have been fine without it for six years, and I won't hesitate to go back to the word filter. I just want to give you guys some breathing room, and most of you are older teens or adults to begin with. So, please, don't jump into a topic and post a word 50 times, over and over, just because I'm doing this. Also, I'm asking that we still keep the post quality high. Our quality has been very good. Dropping the filter can have a negative effect, but I trust that we'll be fine. http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/topic/18178-drop-the-word-censor Most wanted it done, so hopefully, this is going to be a good idea. Activity can pick up, members who left in the past because of the filter (no idea why anyone would do that) can change their mind, and we can make it work. There are two words in the ban filter...one is a racial slur, one is usually related to homosexuals. Those won't be posted because they'll be used to personally attack members, and I'm not going to lay that out on the table for everyone to grab. It won't really be a trial period, but I'll pay close attention to our post quality, and I'll make the best decision for the site when it's all said and done. OTR houses some of the best basketball posters out there, and we've sacrificed our activity to eliminate all of our trolls (most forums welcome trolls, to promote the baiting and activity, and the outcome is the site losing their best members). Everyone here seems mature enough to handle it, so I suppose I should say thanks for that as well. I wouldn't run a site if it contained a bunch of adolescent teens that spent their time trashing other sites, their own community, and posting worthless posts.

Barkley was actually joking. He was one of my favorite players back in the late 80s and 90s, and I watched him all the time. Aside from the fighting and him spitting on a fan, he didn't do anything stupid like that on the court (and if he did, it was once). Jordan brand? Huh? MJ would "woop" Kobe one-on-one? Do you have proof? A second-year Kobe didn't have too much trouble with him in the 1997 ASG, an MVP year for Jordan. Their first real regular season meeting (Kobe playing more than 13 minutes, and they actually defended each other, Kobe did pretty damn good, and Jordan was still a Bull. 12/17/1997 Kobe - 33 PTS (12-20 FG, 60%), 3 REB, 2 AST, 0 TO Jordan - 36 PTS (12-22 FG, 55%), 5 REB, 4 AST, 4 TO Their second meeting, Jordan scored more and did better, but he also shot just 42% against Bryant (who shot 44% against MJ), and Jordan put him in foul trouble. Again, this is a second-year Bryant against Jordan, who was in an MVP season (and on his way to his sixth ring). But, okay. You know what's even more hilarious? Jordan complained about contact just as much. He just wasn't as animated. He would cuss at the ref, stare him down, and constantly talk to him on the floor. I'm sure you'd know this, since you watched Jordan throughout the 80s and 90s...right?

Weird. So size does matter? That means Ibaka's dunk wasn't that impressive? Guess that also means Nate deserved to win every year, as did Spud. Or, maybe it's just a reason to try and turn DeRozan into something he's not: a dunk contest winner. But oh yeah, it's definitely rigged. Everything is when it doesn't go someone's way. Blake was more powerful (by miles), had more ups, had the more impressive windmill vs. DeRozan's 2010 dunk, and did three other dunks that have never been seen in an NBA dunk contest before (VC's elbow, but with the throw, more difficult). Combine all of that, and you have a winner. Can't change the past by whining about it. Check this image out: http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/184334_10150094029750924_194822060923_6461617_2674233_n.jpg I laughed at this one: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/185775_10150093683755924_194822060923_6458107_3814425_n.jpg

He retired for a season and a half. His second retirement, he was already suffering from the destroyed index finger (just like Bryant's), hurting knees, and he didn't look like the MJ we saw in his first three championship runs. It was obvious he was declining, and even less efficient...had a LOT of trouble shooting the ball in the Finals as well, despite the Jazz rarely double-teaming him (which led to Bryon Russell thinking he was better than MJ, his quote). I don't really consider his stint with Washington when I discuss a topic like this. Maybe when Bryant is all said and done. Jordan would've had eight rings, though (not falling for the hype about Houston, but that was meant for another topic), although, if we play that game, we can talk about Kobe and Shaq having more if they got along, and if Phil arrived in 1996, instead of 1999.

Paul Pierce. He's going to be known as one of the greatest Celtics of all-time, while people will look at Ray 20 years down the road and see a few teams and threes, and they'll relate to him as the catch-and-shoot player. An all-star, of course, but a glorified Reggie Miller of sorts. Slightly underrated, to be honest.

The best defensive teams in the history of the game were from 1999-2010. 2003-04 Spurs 1997-98 Spurs 2003-04 Rockets 2003-04 Pistons 2003-04 Wolves 1999-00 Lakers 2000-01 Knicks 2007-08 Celtics 2000-01 Spurs 2002-03 Kings 1971-72 Bucks The 71-72 Bucks were the only team outside of that era to hold their opponents to .420 FG or less. Zone defense is more effective than hand-checking. Hell, players still get away with hand-checking today. Players were getting too aggressive, and fouls were still being called. Zone is effective both with or without the aggressive play. You set up a zone, and if a team wants, they keep Kobe out of the paint all game long, no matter what. Granted, other players will get theirs, but if the team really wants Kobe to shoot and never drive, it's done. What Jordan did was amazing, but it's overrated. Aside from the Jordan Rules (from the Pistons, and later the Knicks), he didn't face much from a team standpoint, and the Jordan Rules were put aside because Mike would just pass to one of MANY shooters, such as Kerr, Paxson, Kukoc, Armstrong, Hodges, and even Pippen, and teams were forced to stick one player on him. It's too bad Kobe wasn't an 80s or 90s superstar.

I don't look at efficiency because players were far more efficient back then...meaning, guards. It's amazing...30-40 different guards, 15+ PPG, shot over 50% from the floor in Jordan's era. You don't see that today. Just the other day, Kobe stated that if he had a chance to change the game, he would remove the zone defenses. Jordan did face zones here and there, but the doubles were forced to commit to the player, so he didn't see them as often because, to be legal defense, teams HAD to leave one guy open. Made the game easier, no matter what anyone says...it's a no-brainer. The greatest defensive teams have played superstars like that, with a modified zone, and it goes from the 2008 Celtics to the 2004 Pistons, a couple of the Spurs teams, etc. Also, defensive specialists have been getting much, much more playing time in Bryant's era. Bowen, Afflalo, T-Allen, Battier, Bell, Matthews, Batum, Varejao, D-Jones, Chalmers (who starts over a better offensive player in Arroyo), Ariza, Sefolosha, even Artest...and the list goes on...most of the perimeter defenders do nothing but spot-up and play defense. Back in the 80s and 90s, basketball was more team-oriented. The idea was to stop the team. When Detroit and New York decided to use the Jordan Rules, they still couldn't get the job done for that very reason...the physical defense, double teams, and constant switching of defenders did three things: it drew more fouls, left Jordan's teammates open (still no zones) and had a negative effect on their offensive production. Jordan was more efficient, and he has a higher average (in a season and career), more points. Bryant has more ways to score the ball, more range, and the higher point total in a game. It's hard to convince me that Kobe couldn't have averaged 37 PPG (or better) if Phil wasn't around that season, AND if he had more shots at it (he was with Shaq from 1996-2004). Jackson sat Kobe out of the fourth in his 62-point game against Dallas. He sat Kobe for a quarter when he dropped 57 and 56 against Memphis and Washington. Bryant could've had three 70-point games, not including his 81. People that didn't watch LA every game have no idea how Jackson tried to put the ball in Odom's hands, hoping he could facilitate, then to rely on Kobe in isolations later on. It was crazy. Bryant had a 42-point first half one time. In the 81-point game, he dropped 55 in the second half. So don't bother giving me just the numbers. Wilt scored like he was playing on a seven-foot rim. Him and Kareem rebounded like they were on one. Shaq never averaged 30 PPG in his career, mainly because he was next to Bryant, and in an offense implemented by Phil. Bryant is the more versatile scorer, and has faced more traffic than any player not named Shaq. He's so versatile and has so many options, he's still doing it despite the TONS of miles already logged, a longer duration of prime than Mike and any player I can think of in the last 20-30 years (even Malone, argue Kareem), and it's all because of the number of ways he can score the ball. Jordan is the GOAT. Kobe is the better scorer.

LeBron took full advantage of our bigs in the 4th. I saw it coming...even stated it about two minutes before he started. Gasol is such a pansy. Duncan looked like he was sleeping on a dunk of his (really weird). I loved how the East started stacking players around Bryant in the 4th, too. They had a guy on him (usually it was Johnson) and had one of their other four close enough to collapse, or they would bring the double (hell, they doubled him a few times just because he was bringing the ball up the floor, lol). Durant fed off of it, and he actually dropped in some big buckets, and that's how we ended up winning. Kobe drops that 37 in an ASG, just five away from Wilt, and I believe he's what...3rd or 4th on the ASG single-game scoring list? Equally impressive would be the 14 boards, 10 being o-boards (WTF), and the really good defense he played all night, the dunk on LeBron, ripping Wade twice, playing like it's a playoff game. Beast. Clear-cut MVP.

I seriously can't believe OSU lost that game. I figured it would be close, but still...

I wasn't comparing those two, but again, you wouldn't want to talk about DeRozan's 50 from last year's contest. And I could care less if I'm changing anyone's mind. It's simple logic. There are some on OTR that realize it as well, and obviously, so did the judges...ironically, all of them being dunk legends. Sorry.

Baron Davis screwed the pass up 3-4 times. The first and second attempt, Blake was going for a different dunk...but okay. And Griffin's dunk looked far better. DeRozan took the windmill to the center? He barely did the windmill. You don't drop a guy 10 points like that. A 40 would be ridiculous. DeRozan didn't even deserve a 50 for it last season, because Iggy would've made it look five times better. I knew people would be sour about it, though. People are pissed he's in the all-star game, they are pissed he's dunking on their guys, and they are pissed because he won the dunk contest. You guys are going to be pissed off for a long time.

I think it would be a historical NBA moment if he decided to demand a trade to the Cavaliers.

Kobe, Howard, CP3 vs. Melo, Amare, D-Will in the NBA Finals? -_-

The funny part is, if you ask someone why Nate and Spud couldn't do it, and they were actually willing to answer the question (instead of avoiding it), they would say something like this... "Because Nate and Spud are too short, and don't have the wingspan to finish the dunk." Then, if you ask why Ibaka's dunk was so impressive, they say... "Because Ibaka is too tall and long to be able to dunk like that." It's funny, really. And you can tell how much he benefits from his height and length in this video below, when he does the FT line dunk to win the contest in Europe... http://acbtv.acb.com/video/843-lacb-20082009-vuelos_imposibles_en_el_concurso_de_mates The fact that nobody can avoid is that the shorter you are, and the more you weigh, the harder it is to dunk. You're taller, and you don't weigh as much? You can jump out of the building. Simple as that.

If he was 285 pounds, they'd be able to explain it...but with him weighing just 235, no...they can't.

http://i54.tinypic.com/eb5tmp.jpg

http://www.nba.com/lakers/photos/109298086_10.jpg http://www.nba.com/lakers/photos/109297288_10.jpg PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!

Man, I felt so bad for Iggy. He looks just like LeBron. I feel bad for that, too.

Go to 3:05. DeRozan gets a 50 for the same exact dunk, with a less impressive windmill.

So the Knicks will look like this... C - Amare Stoudemire | Ronny Turiaf PF - Shawne Williams | Anthony Randolph SF - Carmelo Anthony | Bill Walker SG - Landry Fields | Tony Douglas PG - Chauncey Billups | Anthony Carter ??? Worst bench in the history of basketball, and a starting PF that should never start a game, and that's really a SF?

KD screwed up. He wasn't even jumping to shoot those shots, almost like he was afraid that time was going to expire. Terrible stuff from him. I did NOT want Pierce to win. Ray, I really don't mind...but Pierce? No way. Wow, didn't know that...and I don't remember him winning it. The damn analysts lied (TNT guys), too...but it's my fault for believing them.