Real Deal

You keep saying it's not fair and that he needs to realize that, but you're supporting that opposition against Muslims...so it really doesn't matter. You said it's like the Jews hating Hitler. I don't see how. Hitler is an individual that did terrible, inhumane things to be hated by EVERYONE. As more than one person (as a group of people), Muslims did nothing. As I said earlier, there are white serial killers. Tons of them. Does that mean white Americans should be viewed as serial killers? There are more white serial killers that kill in our country than there are Muslim terrorists that attacked our country. How many churches are allowed in Mecca? Why isn't the United States a Christian country (officially)? We could force Christianity on everyone, you know, and then we can ask how many mosques are allowed here. We can also force blacks and mexicans out of the country, like a lot of people would like to do (yeah, it's true, a lot of Republicans in Kansas would love to do that). USA...land of the free, but only kind of.

That's all that needs to be said. I'm sure Kobe would be consistent as well if he didn't have to put up 30 a game, but the point is, Kobe is the better defender. If you need one stop, you pick your absolute best defender to get that stop. So, in other words, he has had the help of a great defensive cast his entire career? In 2006 and 2007 (no Gasol, just Odom and Mihm, Smush and Walton, those fantastic defenders), Kobe was voted All-Defensive 1st Team. Just like LeBron and Wade were, the same argument you used in the "Lakers defense" topic. The 2007 Lakers were ranked 24th in the league, defensively. Bryant 1st Team All-Defense. Bryant's defensive lapses come from picking up Fisher's man, or covering a slasher and leaving open his shooter (usually, Kobe's opponents are left open for long shots, which he'd rather give up). Not exactly a defensive lapse. Bryant also comes over to help with bigs. There is a quote I'll look for, by Phil, that explains Kobe's role on the defensive end and why he never asks Bryant to lock down his man UNLESS it's at the end of a game, or if he's hurting the team enough to cause a loss (something along those lines). Are you trying to say that, if needed (if asked of him), Battier would do a better job than Bryant on, say, Durant...for 40 minutes? Guess it's a matter of opinion, then. I just don't think Battier is at that level anymore. Top ten is different...but I can't say he's a top five defender in the league. Bryant was injured for half the season, major injuries that would sit most players in the league, but you could only see it every now and then on the defensive end.

http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules Not going to say which guideline needs to be read. Just read the whole thing if you don't know. There are members I really can't stand on every site I go to. I don't stalk them or make fun of them. I don't like half of the Lakers fans out there, but I still run a Lakers site with them posting 2,000-4,000 times a day. If one or two members are causing you grief and are breaking the rules, come to me about it. If they aren't breaking guidelines, and you are because of them, you probably won't last here. If they aren't doing anything wrong and you're having mental breakdowns because of something else, get help and go post somewhere else.

Uh huh...the police should be there in an hour.

Delete it, go to your Start menu and find it there. Right-click and send it to your desktop and see if you have the icon. If so, drag it down to the taskbar from the desktop. If you don't have the icon on the desktop after you "send" it, it's missing from your computer, somehow. Maybe because it's a download and not directly from the CD, and I'm turning you in to the FBI.

I don't see how you think he's a good on-ball defender anymore. If he was, he'd have the quickness to stick with the guards that blow past him. To be a good on-ball defender, you either need quickness/speed, or physical toughness on the defensive end. Battier has neither. You can be as smart as any player out there, but if you don't have either of those, you're toast. Luke Walton is a high IQ player and, believe it or not, defender...but he doesn't have the speed or physicality to be effective on that side of the ball. Same for Brent Barry, who would sometimes teach rookies how to play defense...yet couldn't play it himself once he was on the court. Kobe is stuck on my list over Battier because, if there's 24 seconds left in the game, there's nobody else in the NBA I want defending a player. Would you pick Battier over Bryant in that scenario? If not, that's basically telling me that, at their best and most motivated, Kobe is the better defender. I don't consider who is playing with these guys. When I stick each out on an island to defend one player, minimal help defense, I then make my list. Howard, Oden, Artest, Kobe and Hinrich make the cut. If injuries were considered, it rules Oden out...so I'm not going to say I considered them. I just don't think Battier is as good of a defender, on-ball + help (as in, him helping, not others helping him) than those five. Many argue that Rondo gets a lot of help from Garnett and Perkins, too. Some argue that Garnett's knee injury has changed his effectiveness on defense, and that Rondo holding his guards AND Perkins helping up front makes up for it. Some say Perkins would be worse off if Garnett and Rondo weren't so good on defense. Put them in separate scenarios, and suddenly, I feel like I can't put any of those three in my top five because of that. Houston vs. Oklahoma City, first round, series tied up. Westbrook is killing Brooks like he did Fisher. Does Battier switch over and hold Westbrook to under 40% shooting in the final two games of that series? I seriously doubt that.

Tony Allen averaged 16.5 minutes per game. Rudy played almost 24 a game last season, with Portland. The reason Rudy wants to be traded from the Blazers is because he doesn't get enough playing time. I seriously doubt he goes to Boston.

Easily Nash. He knows how to run a team and is better at everything other than defense. The Lakers would make up for that just like they've done with Fisher.

I think it's more about him not having a hand in the offense. There are defensive specialists that can produce offensively as well. Pippen comes to mind. Tayshaun Prince. Gary Payton.

I don't see why any of that matters. Battier was always defending Kobe, even though Bryant plays the two. He was always defending the best player at the two OR three, as far as I can remember. Seems to me like Battier lost a step, lost Yao AND lost Artest. The less amount of help, the less Battier looks good. You can draw that conclusion based on us agreeing that he usually always leads his opponents into help defense, which is why he's a smart player. If it was all about numbers and percentages (the opponent eFG%), you probably should've stuck Varejao in your five for what he did against the bigs, and Wade for the numbers he puts up. Plus, numbers plus importance of position played, leave Sefolosha off your list. Bryant looks to be the better defender. Granger defends the four as good as Garnett, according to the numbers, and he plays half of his minutes there (I actually didn't realize that). Kevin Durant looks like a good defender, also, at the three...much better than LeBron, in fact...by the numbers. On-ball defense, not a chance. If we're rating individuals, I would rather pick the better on-ball defender, not the one that has to rely on his bigs every single drive. Smart defense, but Fisher unintentionally does what Battier did last season. Fantastic idea when you have Dwight Howard, though.

A mosque is strictly a building of prayer, and for Muslims. There's a basketball court, swimming pool, a floor for culinary arts, etc. It's definitely a community center, no debate about it. Two blocks away, you can't even see anything that has to do with ground zero. If Muslims are going to be associated with terrorists by people in this country...Americans are all serial killers, because Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer and Donald Harvey are Americans. There are two churches located within two blocks of ground zero. You don't want a community center for Muslims because they will have two floors to pray on? Out of respect to those who died? Well, take out the other churches, bulldoze the empty, useless buildings, and make "ground zero" even larger and more secluded.

Fourth last season, minus Barnes, Blake, Ratliff and a healthy Bynum. They were ranked second at one point in late January, before the all-star break, when both Kobe and Bynum were fully healthy (Kobe had a terrible second half filled with injuries, and we know what happened to Drew). Adding Barnes, Blake and Ratliff, and even Ebanks (who played solid defense on a college level), getting rid of Farmar (no lateral quickness) and Powell (never played defense), and probably not seeing Walton on the court ever (may retire)...the Lakers can be the best defensive team this upcoming season, easily. --------- As for Brown, Fisher and Odom playing good defense? No. Fisher plays decent post defense, but a player usually has him in the post when it's a mismatch, and at that point, that player is almost a foot taller and dropping in a hook. Shannon is a decent help defender, terrible on-ball. Odom doesn't even know what defense is. But we definitely make up for that with the rest of the team.

I wasn't talking about great offensive players, though. Maybe a few years back, but it doesn't take a great offensive player to do that to Shane anymore. Even you admitted he's lost a step.

I'm taking Kidd for the all-around game, and because Nash is a horrible defender (doesn't matter what team he's on).

Yep, good catch. I mixed up their 3PT% with their oppFG%.

Players fall to second options because they are not good enough to be first options. Gasol, like LeBron and Iverson, had the opportunity to win a playoff game. He didn't. He had excellent defensive-minded players, had shooters...and the Grizzlies were a playoff team, but hit 50 wins just once, and never won a single playoff series or game. How good is Gasol right now? Pretty good, with Kobe taking much of the heat. Gasol was under so much pressure as a primary option, he didn't touch 15 FGA per game in Memphis. What primary options, with "scrubs" for teammates, shoot under 15 times a game AND win 50 games? Gasol's Memphis team was good. So was Iverson's Sixers, when he had defenders such as Snow and Mutombo. Same with LeBron and his shooters (Gibson, Williams, West) and his defenders (Varejao, West, Newble, etc). It's only funny to me because many here preach about how a "complete team" can knock off the big three in Miami, but when it comes to evaluating what Gasol had in Memphis, he didn't have anyone because none of them were superstars, yet Dirk apparently had a star-studded team when it was him, Jason Terry (12 PPG), Josh Howard (12 PPG) and an older and injured Stackhouse and Finley (both missed a combined 44 games), and Dallas still won 58 and advanced to the second round. The next season, 60 wins with basically the same roster and Devin Harris, except it was Howard and Harris who couldn't play 60 games...both of them. What happened that season? They went to the Finals, with Stackhouse, Dampier, and Daniels all playing injured, Harris averaging just 9 PPG in the postseason. I could go on for days. Dirk is the better primary option, by far...has 15-20 games of 40+ points (two 50+ point games). Gasol has hit 40 just once or twice in his career, high of 43...AND that's only counting the regular season. I'm 100% sure Dirk has some in the playoffs. The worst part of it all...is that people consider Dirk a small forward all of a sudden. They don't see how many times he actually posts his man up. I wonder if they consider Kevin Garnett (the guy that supposedly turned Gasol into an even bigger sissy in 2008) a small forward, also, because he would rather take a 15-foot jumper versus a 5-foot hook. Gasol had a real team around him. Does anyone want to explain how a team can be 7th in the league in offense, with their best player shooting just 13.4 FGA per game, just 2.5 APG? Six players on that Grizzlies 50-win team took 9+ shots per game. Gasol shot just 48% that season, averaged UNDER 18 PPG, under 8 RPG, under 3 APG. A team with 50 wins? Let me know how that's accomplished with that all-star shooting just 13 times a game. Excuses for Gasol, no excuses for LeBron and Iverson? Okay. Funny stuff. Gasol won 50 games on his own! Shane Battier, James Posey and Earl Watson didn't play defense and didn't help hold opponents to under 44% FG, Mike Miller didn't shoot the ball and throw four assists a game, and Jason Williams wasn't as good of a passer and facilitator as his seven assists and limited turnovers seem (6.8 AST/1.9 TO). Ten consecutive 50+ win seasons as the primary scoring option, with three 60+ win seasons under his belt. He'd also have a ring if it wasn't for the referees giving Wade 96 free throws in the 2006 NBA Finals. He's averaged 27-28 PPG in six of his ten playoff runs, double-digit rebounds in eight of those ten. Come on now...

Rudy has proven that he's an inconsistent shooter. Plus, he wants minutes. He won't be getting them playing behind Allen and Pierce in Boston.

Jennings was closer to hitting the rim on that oops than he is shooting his jumpers. Pretty sick though.

I can't say I agree with Scola being above Kevin (I think Love will put up better numbers with Jefferson gone, and Yao being back will drop Scola's production), but I agree with your #1-4.

Troy Murphy is in every picture but one (Kevin Love). Same with Dwyer's top ten SG's and OJ Mayo being in every picture.

Yeah, he's still a high-IQ defender, but he's to the point where he's dropping that foot back pretty far when his man drives and pulls up for jumpers, and he's not recovering in time to contest the shot. He still gets into their face, but a lot of times, he's just not there for it. It hurts for him to not have Yao, either, because for quite some time, I could probably say that Battier was making Yao look like a better defender (and Ming was actually getting better, but Battier was also leading his man into the help better than anyone in the league). Now, the quicker two-guards that Battier defends are leaving him in smoke because they aren't intimidated by Chuck Hayes (even though he's an excellent defender, he's not 7-6) and Luis Scola (who would rather flop).

If a lot of those fouls didn't come against guards and forwards, I would've put Perkins ahead of Oden.

I moved the old topics into an archives forum. And...Nitro, you're the forum moderator. You should be able to edit topic titles, delete posts, pin/unpin topics, and open/close topics in the RYM forum.

Keep reading: http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/08/25/police-j-r-smith-involved-in-altercation-at-nuggets-practice-f/ Of course...it's the same guy that's going to repair his image and change his attitude.

Lee, Horford, Ilgauskas, Camby, Okur, Gasol, Duncan, Bargnani, and a few others. How many true post players are offensive threats? Howard, Shaq, Yao, and Drew? Yao didn't even play. Drew is usually hurt, or doesn't play but half of the game. Yeah, and the only time Dwight played Oden, it was Oden's 17th game of his career, in 2008. Oden's knee was still an issue, and he was so inconsistent, he played 11 minutes with four fouls, and Howard dominated him. Two weeks later, just eight minutes and five fouls against Denver. Four fouls in 12 minutes against Detroit another two weeks later. He looked worse than Kwame Brown. Oden does average a lot of fouls, yes, but so did Perkins before Garnett showed up. Perkins was contesting shots galore, from both centers and power forwards, and now, he has two excellent defensive players as teammates (KG and Rondo) and a smart defender in Pierce. Oden has Roy. Alridge doesn't cut it. Could be something he's going to have to eventually overcome, because he goes for more shots (tries to block everything) as much as Alonzo Mourning did, and while I think Oden is a good defensive player (second best defensive center, in my opinion), he's nowhere near Zo.