Real Deal

Utah could get Hinrich or Salmons for Boozer, I'm sure, probably even Brad Miller thrown in with one of them.

I'd rather see Miller playing. Fisher has a chance to defend him. Bayless would just destroy Fisher off the dribble.

Boozer wouldn't have to come off the bench. He's a legit center. Dallas would just play small.

Already planned on it, actually. I really don't think he'll be playing much at all this season (well, for the rest of it).

I wonder how many Kings fans really hope he gets dealt before the deadline? Sacramento looks more comfortable with Evans handling the ball.

I really don't think Redd belongs out there. I know he's capable of putting up 20 on any given night right now, but that's really ALL he does, with pathetic defense, no team concept, and inconsistent shooting percentages. Jennings isn't shooting well (I posted something about his last 10 of 11 being under 40%, or something near that), but there are other players who will open their arms up to taking more shot attempts to make up for Redd's, especially Bogut.

Garnett and that knee... I know they say it's nothing like that (nothing to really worry about), but it's the same one. Knee injuries and older players don't mix well together. Boston won't crash and burn without Garnett, though, but if this becomes something they'll have to be concerned with up until April or May, I don't see them reaching the ECF.

Haha, yep...the thing about having Gasol and Randolph is that you have your defensive player that will help cover Zach's assignments, and then you have the scorer that will serve as a post presence when Gasol just isn't cutting it. But Marc isn't that bad of a scorer, either, which makes it tough on opposing frontcourts because Mayo and Gay are also scorers.

Kings (Evans, Thompson, Martin) Rockets (Ariza, Scola, Brooks) Sixers (new Iverson, Iguodala, Young) Knicks (Robinson, Harrington, Chandler) Raptors (Bosh, DeRozan, Bargnani) Suns (Nash, Amare, Hill) Lakers (Kobe, Gasol, Artest, Bynum) Hawks (Johnson, Smith, Horford) Celtics (Pierce, Garnett, Allen, Rondo) Those teams are finished. Remember that 26 teams will have three players, while four others (Lakers, Celtics, Magic and Spurs) will have four. Sixer fans, if you want Brand instead of Young, let me know. Raptors fans, if you want a replacement for Bargs, make sure he's a good player. Knicks fans, if you want Lee instead of any of the three, post in here. More to come soon.

No player will ever average 50 again. Wilt was playing among a bunch of small forwards that had to defend him, with a handful of centers. I'm convinced that Bryant could average 40, though...maybe a little tough today, but 3-4 years ago, there's no doubt in my mind he'd top 40.

Actually, I never said I use stats to say one player is better than the other. Otherwise, I'd be telling everyone that LeBron is better than Bryant. I said this... Which is true. I never said those stats mean they are the best in the league in those categories, though...just who leads in those stats. Do stats become irrelevant? Not completely irrelevant, but re-read what you posted... Because of the bench, because of who he plays with, because of his ability to play with starters, etc. Everything is because of someone else. The +/- statistic is going to favor who you play with more than someone's PPG. Kobe doesn't need a single decent teammate to give you 40 points, and he can do it with one (or two) as well. But something we know about your favorite statistic is that it's easily altered depending on your four other teammates, as you just stated with Odom. The most important stats are the absolute stats, the ones that tell you "how many" in your game or season. How many points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, shot attempts, free throws, threes, etc. Without those, well, you have nothing to begin with, and +/- doesn't even exist at that point. That statistic is just like Hollinger's PER and the NBA's efficiency rating. Both have inaccuracies. I'd rather have true numbers, and I guess you're in a different boat in that regard, and I'm willing to bet it's because you favor defense far more than you do offense. Kobe's impact on the team is larger than that of Lamar Odom's. No statistic can tell me otherwise, and no scenario can convince me or ANY Laker fan that Odom is more important. Don't care if he led the bench or played in the starting five, every single fan knows he's not Bryant. Your statistic says the opposite. That's all I'm saying.

I think Ray Allen is still an all-star player. I can't say the same for Tyreke Evans yet.

All I'm saying is that I would never, ever judge a player's impact on a team based on +/- numbers because those numbers are still influenced by teammates' statistics. No matter what way you bend it, when you "adjust" them using his teammates' numbers...well, you're still adjusting with other stats impacted by teammates (since EVERYONE'S is that way). It all stems back to my original take on it: if you can consider Anderson Varejao the best sixth man in the league because of his +/- stats, you have to consider Ron Artest an MVP candidate. I'm sure there isn't a single person on OTR, or anywhere, willing to do that...so they might as well drop Varejao from all talk of a sixth man award. And Vujacic isn't the only one. I found three other examples, and I'm sure I can find many others (at least one per team) where you can easily tell the +/- statistic is way off regarding player impact, I just didn't feel the need to have to post it. As you saw, you had to try and explain why Fisher, Farmar and Ariza were sitting behind the pathetic Vujacic. All three should've been ahead of him, not just one of them. Plus, when Odom is ahead of Bryant on the 1-year adjusted, nearly on the 2-year adjusted, and the 1-year overall...haha, I'm sorry, but that's just another example of the statistic being absolutely ridiculous, because Bryant is easily the better offensive player (by far) and easily the better defensive player. All this stat tells me is how players do with all the different lineups they have to work with, but it doesn't tell me that Odom isn't stuck in a five with garbage players, or how much garbage time Vujacic played. After a while, you run out of explanations, Erick. Farmar is low because he wasn't that good, but Ariza was low because of his adjustments due to his teammates, and Deng is so high because Chicago doesn't have anyone else at his position, while Rose is low because he was a rookie and his offense didn't impact the team as much as Hinrich's defense did, while Vujacic was so high because he was on a team full of stars and his rating was actually a bit low in that regard... The one simple excuse is that the stat covers more from the five than it does from the actual player, because Kobe and Odom don't play with the same teammates, against the same opponents, all the time. Hardly ever, in fact. Does Odom defend Wade and shoot 20+ shots a game...same night? Does Bynum do that and run the triangle offense? How many offensively-injected centers does Bynum have to defend all season long compared to who Ron Artest will have to defend? It's my final post on the subject. The statistic measures a player's impact in the fives he plays in, in the situations he's given. Not one player is the same in that regard, so this statistic is useless. While you can tell who some of the top scorers in the league are by simply looking at their PPG, or who throws the most assists, or who grabs the most rebounds...this stat really doesn't tell you much because, honestly, it doesn't compare two like kinds.

Well, yeah, Crittenton deserves punishment too. I'm just talking about Arenas. I can't feel bad for him, at all...especially after he pretended to shoot his teammates the other night.

Nah, Pau won't play. Bynum needs to MOVE around, instead of trying to post up so far away from the rim. He can play a two-man game with Bryant all game long if he would just stay active around the basket.

I'd consider that, actually. Ray Allen is a HUGE piece for Boston. He's one of the best shooters of all-time, one of the best off-the-ball players ever, and he's still a very dangerous player (just had a 50-point game in the playoffs last year).

Depends on Kobe's injury. He's been trying to play left-handed for the last few games, re-wrapping the finger and trying different casts. If he's fine, we'll win. He won't let us lose this game.

What does it matter? He still had guns.

Well, they play with other starters...that's the point. And Erick, I listed the one year overall. But, since you asked me to go to the one year adjusted, I will...and see that Sasha Vujacic was a 0.61, which is said to be better than Trevor's -2.78, Fisher's -11.09, and Farmar's -16.99. Haha, not a chance, bro. 2008-09 Vujacic? No way.

Yeah, Evans is a two-guard. Let me just list the primary two-guards for each team. If I get one wrong, I'm sorry...it's based on how much they probably play the position. Joe Johnson Ray Allen Stephen Jackson John Salmons Anthony Parker Jason Terry JR Smith Ben Gordon Monta Ellis Trevor Ariza Brandon Rush Eric Gordon Kobe Bryant OJ Mayo Dwyane Wade Charlie Bell Corey Brewer Chris Douglas-Roberts Devin Brown Larry Hughes Thabo Sefolosha Vince Carter Andre Iguodala Jason Richardson Brandon Roy (who is primarily an SF, but I'm sure he plays the most two-guard on the team) Tyreke Evans Roger Mason Marco Belinelli Wes Matthews Randy Foye Is Evans a top ten? I don't know. Kobe, Wade, Johnson, Allen, Roy, Carter, Iguodala...I think those guys are easily the better overall players. I'm sure some can argue for Eric Gordon, Monta Ellis, Ben Gordon, Stephen Jackson.

Durant had 19 at the half, ended up with 27 for the game. Big difference, especially in the fourth, where New Orleans made their mini-comeback.

The entire third was Kobe, but it didn't matter because Bynum and Fisher can't defend ANYONE. Baron and Kaman just toyed with them all game, really. No matter what he shoots, Bryant won't outscore the Clippers in a 48-minute span. This game was lost due to pathetic interior defense by anyone and everyone defending in the post, and terrible defense by Derek Fisher. Pathetic. Maybe we can focus on ALL games and not act like we just want to hop on the plane early and fly to our next destination.

Well, I want to see what we do if we have Gasol in there. I don't think we've had Gasol playing in the three meetings we've had with Houston already. Because he's a big baby and doesn't want to play if he doesn't get enough shots.

Sorry to hear that, bro. It's always toughest when you're there with them.

Drop the personal agendas now. Don't even reply to each other. Leave everything that happened on another site ON that other site. Don't start "online beef" with anyone, don't bait anyone to get them banned, don't come whining to me about it constantly, don't act like kids and just do what you're supposed to do on a message board without all the Real World drama. Topic closed.