AboveLegit

So let me get this straight, because Kobe takes more ill-advised shots over multiple defenders, we should cut him some slack? No, FG& is FG%, there's no exceptions to this. There's no point in throwing in players like Bynum, this is Jordan vs Kobe, let's leave it to that. So... let's take Kobe's FGA per game from 2004.... Kobe Bryant 04 18.1 FGA per game, 24.0 PPG Michael Jordan 89 22.2 FGA per game 32.5 PPG Now do this... 18.1 divided by 22.2 = .8227 .8227 x 32.5 = 26.7 PPG So you see, who you play with doesn't change the RATE at which you score. In fact, if other players are drawing attention, you might actually score at a higher rate. For example, when Jordan was young and athletic, he shot a higher % with Pippen and Grant than he did without them (85-87). So, you can bring Karl Malone and Gary Payton into the equation, and you can throw Reggie Miller in there to if you want to. It doesn't change the FG%. So if you give Jordan Kobe's EXACT number of shots in 2004, here is the comparison you would get: Kobe Bryant 18.1 shots per game, 24 PPG, 43.8% FG Michael Jordan 18.1 shots per game, 26.7 PPG, 53.8% FG Which one looks MARKEDLY better than the other? You can go on and on about "waaa, Kobe had to share with Shaq...." Okay... in 2002, Kobe shoots 20.0 shots per game and averages 25.2 PPG. Again... in 1989, Jordan shoots 22.2 FGA per game and averages 32.5 PPG... on TWO extra shots. 20 divided by 22.2 = .9009 x 32.5 = 29.2 PPG So, you give Jordan those same shots that POOR Kobe had to live with, and he's scoring 4 more PPG... in a game where one possession can make or break you in quality matchups, I'd say that's significant. Kobe is also not more skilled than Jordan. Take "the shot" v. Cleveland. How many players can go full speed toward their off hand, then jump going left, suspend themselves in air while squaring up, and then hit a true elimination shot (an elimination shot means... you hit it, you win a series, you miss it, you lose a series) from the free throw line. What "ridiculous shot" has Kobe hit that measures up to that? What about the game-tying shot down the stretch in game 3 of the 91 Finals. MJ drives full court past Scott, then pulls up, gets a running jumper off barely over the tips of Divac's hand, HIGH arching and comes down nothing but net. Not what the corporate media takes from his best years in terms of making them money.... the best Jordan ever seen was in 1989.... 32.5 PPG, 8 RPG 8 APG... like 9 30 point 10 assist games in one postseason.

Kobe has never had a year where he shot better than 50% from the field... Jordan did that 5 times in a row. I never said FG% tells the whole story about the scorer, but it does imply how efficient they are. Jordan is much more consistent, and scored the ball more. If that doesn't tell you he's the better score, I don't know what to say.. ... it's about FG%. If you aren't scoring at an efficient rate, you can score more and your team wins less. Being on a worse team wasn't gonna make Kobe's FG% go up. Jordan put up 33.6 PPG on 52.6% FG on a 1990 Bulls team that took the world champs to game 7... Jordan had quicker footspeed and was more powerful at the point of attack. Now, could Kobe get up like MJ if he had a clear lane and didn't have to dunk over contact from elite players? Sure he could. So can Vince Carter. Hell, so could Eddie Robinson. To turn Kobe into Jordan, you'd literally have to give him Isiah Thomas' first step, and then the strength of a Scottie Pippen. That would turn Kobe into Jordan offensively. Want to talk physical ability... Tayshaun Prince in the 2004 Finals. Kobe shot 38%, the Lakers lost. Where was the physical ability that Jordan displayed while being triple teamed by players like Dumars, Thomas, Rodman, Salley and Laimbeer? Because if you could do what he did v. that team, even in the tough seven-game losses, you don't then turn around and get exposed by Tayshaun Prince for a whole series.

How is he exactly better overall? Let's put two things into consideration, half of the game is defense, and the other half if offense. The fact that Jordan has the higher career scoring average proves he is a better scorer. It doesn't matter how you score, if you're as efficient as Jordan was (he shot at a higher FG than Kobe), you're going to be considered better. Jordan is clearly the better defender as well. So I don't see how Jordan being the greatest player ever and not the greatest overall player makes sense.

based on what exactly? Rondo has a ton of potential, just as much as Russell does..

Going to the game tonight, hopefully we win.

Blatche is playing great, but don't look now, the celtics are making their comeback.

Horrible third quarter.

What happens if we get John Wall? We can't have two ball dominant guards in the backcourt together..

Probably the twitter if you guys update it with backlinks to threads.

You know you're a great player when you're placed on an OTR banner.

He has the tools to be an all star, but let's all remember how inconsistent he was the past few years. I'm impressed, but I'm not going to go ahead of myself. I want to see him play like this for another year.

Yeah Blatche and JeVale played great. Nick Young hit an incredible shot.

I'm not making a big deal out of it, but I'm strongly against this. and lmao at anyone who thinks Dallas aren't contenders. Good joke.

We didn't get anything, just a few flurries.

AR- 4 Smitty- 0 Smitty's flow wasn't as great, it seemed like he tried too hard to place words into his lyrics, and it disrupted the flow. Big upset here. :o

He's been doing it for 12 years he said. This is the most ridiculous rule I have ever seen implemented. Not only that, but they JUST decided to do this. He did it every game when he was in DC, he did it in LA and in Miami, but as soon as he plays for a contender, the league finally notices it. Just goes to show how much the NBA favors the contenders, and how much they frown upon the middle of the pack teams. I don't know but its fishy all of a sudden the guy is traded to Dallas and it's a major concern now. That really bothers me. Everybody has their own quirks/vices. So what if Caron Butler likes to chew on straws during games?

I think this decision is part of a bigger decision (that has yet to be announced) to force the overhaul of the AAU system in basketball. Right now, the AAU system in high school aged kids is incredibly corrupt, owned and sponsored by corporations, and coached by great players dads that want big paychecks for their kids, no matter the cost to the development of the kids. High Schools are much better at regulating their students and coaches because coaches are accountable to the school. Stern and Miles are meeting more about the ways they can curb the influence of AAU by encouraging kids to do well both academically and with their skills in high school in order to get into a good college. NBA scouts spend too much time scouting AAU, where they can talk to coaches and sponsors, while college coaches spend more time in high schools, where they can legally talk to coaches and the NBA has to be more hands off. And in case you haven't been watching the NBA for the last 10 years (the years of the high school phenom), the quality of Basketball, as a whole, (there are exceptions) has gone significantly down. It used to be, that 3 or 4 year college players came into the league ready to immediately contribute. Everyone drafted in the first round had two or three years of college experience and was immediately able to contribute at the Pro level (not everyone, but a lot more players than today). Now, if you're a 4 year player, its because you weren't good enough to earn a big paycheck. No matter how you add things up, you cannot discount the lack of basic fundamentals and skill in the league. 25 years ago, most teams had 2 or more VERY skilled big men that had multiple post moves, good passing skills, and great footwork for rebounding and defense. Effective, quality Point Guards were abundant and most teams were able to find very good ones in the league. Now, while there is an abundance of physically talented 7'0 footers that have come into the league recently, only a select few have developed into good players. Back when Hakeem, Patrick Ewing, Shaq, Duncan, Kareem, and guys like that came into the NBA, they had 2, 3 or 4 years of college development (and no AAU experience) that allowed them to immediately dominate in the NBA. Look at guys like Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown, Dwight Howard for examples of what their missing. Except for Howard, the other two had to ride the bench a lot for their first 2 seasons. They came into the league behind a steep learning curve and IMO their development is not what it could have been if they had gone to college first. We're getting excited about Bynum (after 3 seasons) just now starting to average 13 and 10 as a center. I would conjecture that if he went to college for those 3 years, played in the NCAA tournament a couple of times, started 35 games a year playing 32 minutes with a development coach (versus a matchup/strategy coach like Phil), he might have been ready to average 16 and 10 as a rookie center, like great centers of the 80's and early 90's used to do when coming into the league. Who knows how much better Bynum might be, and now he is already showing wear and tear of playing too many games too young (he's gone down to injury in 2 out of his first 3 seasons). I even think that some of Howards deficiencies (he has some) might be better, putting him at a closer to Shaq in his prime level, versus where he is right now. Dwight may never become what O'Neal was, and he had every tool needed to be that good. It will be better for the NBA to have "complete" players ready to play. now we draft lottery picks and say, "well, so and so can shoot well from the perimeter and has good vision, we'll have to teach him defense and ball skills, but we can add that to his limited game later". Before, players wouldn't even be considered lottery picks if they could do everything they need to (at least in a limited way) from day one. I'm sick of seeing "potential" as the number one reason that someone gets drafted. I would rather have ready made, complete players available in the draft. This just simply has not been the case since the influx of early entry players began. Again, there are exceptions, but there are more examples of failed talent because of direct jumps than otherwise.

Blatche with 16 points at the half, 10 in the second quarter! Al Thornton is playing well. We came back to take a 2 point lead. Nick Young had a pretty sick dunk on Haddadi.

Only expecting 6+ inches in my area. Hopefully it's enough to get out of school!

Almost every Wizards fan had that mentality last year, and it didn't do us any good. We just have bad luck, I don't expect anything higher than the 5th pick.

Nice, thanks again B. EDIT: While trying to find more data, I found this interesting piece: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116032&page=2 Apparently, Kobe's game winners include any shot made in the final minute, while Jordan's only count those made in the final 24 seconds and Jordan's numbers don't include game winning free throws. It's an old topic on IH, but still pretty informative. Not sure if any of the information is credible or not, but it does keep you guessing.

Oh alright, thanks RD.

Someone told me Kobe passed Jordan for most all time game winners, anyone care to clear this up for me?

Well, this means more time for Al Thornton, so I'm not too pissed off. I highly doubt we pick up his contract now, unless it's reconstructed to a smaller deal.

Talent + More Touches= Big Numbers That's exactly what's happening with Blatche right now. We're playing in a much more free paced offense now, we're getting on the break more, and Blatche is really our best scoring option (it could be Mike Miller, but he loves to pass). Surprisingly, Dray hasn't been taking bad shots. He's becoming much more mature, and is showcasing his post moves when he gets positioning on his man. I believe the most underrated part of his game is his ability to facilitate an offense, he's not as good as Odom, but he's damn close if you ask me. I had that gut feeling he would break out this year, I predicted it at the beginning of the year, but prior to this past 2 weeks, he hadn't shown us much. He's more confident now, he always had the opportunity to score even when Jamison was our main guy, but he just thought too much when he get the ball in his hands. Now he's making more wise decisions, and is understanding his role in the offense, and that's to score.