EastCoastNiner

In 2009-2010: Wes Welker was first in receptions and second in yards. Randy Moss was fifth in yards and tied for first in TD's. Chad Ochcocinco was 20th in yards and tied for 10th in TD's Terrel Owens was 33rd in yards and tied for 39th in TD's I know stats don't tell the whole story, and that Owens was in Buffalo, and that you might want to break players down in different ways, but it's hard to ignore the hard cold facts. Again, I do understand the whole argument about individual talent, but I don't think Owens is better than Welker now, and I think Owens will do VERY well this season, with 1,000+ receiving yards.

Well, the comparison between the duo's was from the link I provided from espn, but I do think Shipley can be pretty good.

I think he's using the "vacum" argument which does make a lot of sense to do, but I don't think it works here. If you just rank the players, he probably has them like this: Moss Owens Ochcocinco Welker I think that's what he was saying. He was comparing individual talent, and I think you do have to do that sometimes, but I don't even think T.O. is better than Welker now. I actually agree with Skip Bayless. I'll take Santonio Holmes and Cotchery over Ochocinco and Owens right now.

I think T.O. will do well this season except for week 1......... Anyways, you would rather have T.O. right now than Welker? I didn't know if that's what you're implying. I guess people can make an argument for that, but it's hard not to take the guy that leads the league in receptions and is very high up in yards. However, at the same time I understand the whole "system" argument, although I think it's lost a lot of merit recently. Obviously T.O. is the better player if you're comparing their primes, but I think it's hard to make an argument for him now, and I think he'll have 1,000 yards this season.

People don't realize that Ochocinco was a damn good receivers a few years ago, leading the AFC in yards four times I believe. He's definitely lost a step, but he did have a lot of skill, but again, he's lost a few steps. On the other hand, Moss doesn't even look like he's losing a step. So I hope he keeps up his play. .

I do understand what Michael Smith was saying about the vaccum argument, but I don't know if I really agree with it much anymore. It's been three seasons where Wes Welker has thrived, so I don't know if that argument holds much merit anymore. Anyways, I think Moss and Welker individually will have more yards than either Ochocinco or Terrel Owens.

They had this debate on 1st and 10 the other day, it was an interesting debate. Which duo would you rather have right now? Which duo will perform better this year? Do you think the duo that you think is better would do better on most other teams? http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/index/_/count/16 It's the first video on the top of the page.

I sent invites for everyone who provided theirs. I have set the draft for Sunday, August 29, at 10:00 E.T. I think this is the best possible time, so let me know what you think, and I hope there aren't too many complaints because that is my birthday, and I'm willing to draft then. .

As much as I'd hate to do it, I would be willing to move Frank Gore for the right offer. I would love to get Brady, Moss, Crabtree, or another beastly WR!

I'm looking to trade Brett Farve, and upgrade at HB/WR. Also, I really want whoever has Tom Brady and Randy Moss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll send everyone invites tonight if you gave me your email address. If you haven't, please post it in this thread!

ChosenOne has a good team. It's very balanced, and I think you'll win a lot of games.

I have the 4th best HB core, so I'm hoping that carries me. .

Damn, I'll send everyone invites. I forgot to ask for people's email and stuff. If people don't mind, I may delay this for a week because I can't draft this Friday or Saturday, but I can ANY night from Sunday-Thursday the following weeks. It's my fault for not asking for emails. I just forgot about that completely.

I'll go with tomorrow at 10:00 E.T. for now!

I'm not going to say "Top 3", but he probably has more ammo to throw at you supporting his claim than you do at border-line "top 10". You want to tell me what they were ranked in yards, points, rush defense, red zone defense, and games with no offensive TD's allowed? I won't argue about them being a "top 3" defense, but saying they are borderline "top 10" is somewhat insulting. I think they are easily "top 10", and there's a lot to back that up.

You can probably do two at the same time...I think.

I don't mind doing it tomorrow. I just want to make sure people would be able to. I'll edit that post.

We now have a full league of 12 people, who are all generally active!!! If you guys can tell me the best time to draft this week, it would be great! I'm thinking around 10:00 E.T. on Mon, Tue, or Wed?

Farve is lucky he didn't stay in or he was going to get raped. Tavares Jackson was barely escaping the pass-rush, so Farve probably would have died tonight. Alex Smith looked very good, especially without having Gore, Davis, and Crabtree. I don't even think he had any bad passes. He had a couple throw aways, and Tedd Ginn Jr. needs to retire. CATCH A [expletive]ING BALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, and the defense looks sharp!

Let's get one more person!!! I'll try and get Bearsfan or someone to join.

I'm ready for whenever the draft is, but what time is it going to be? .

Yes, it's great. It should start right after the Vikings lose by 25 points.

It's a basketball forum, but during the off-season, you're just going to be beating a dead horse with every topic unless it's something major, and we've had plenty of LeBron and Miami Heat discussions. Once the season starts up, the discussion will get going again, but in the meantime, it's pre-season football, so there will be a lot of discussion there well through October before the NBA season starts.

I don't necessarily disagree, but there's players like Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, ect. that would give him a big run for his money, and may be the favorites. I love Ray Lewis, and outside of the players on the 49er's and Patriots, he is by far my favorite MLB. To even mention Brian Urlacher without putting over-rated and no nearly as good in the same sentence as Ray Lewis is insulting.