EastCoastNiner

There was no argument about Tim Wakefield in this thread, and I didn't feel like going on about him. He has 10 wins, and he has been extremely consistant, even though he has been lit up a few times. He eats innings for the Boston Red Sox, and he fully deserves the spot Do I think Dustin Pedroia should be starting? No. Do I think Kevin Youkilis should be staring? Even though he isn't, he shouldn't be because he's sucked dick for the past month. So, STFU, and go watch the Mets choke down the stretch, as usual.

Gone, like Gilbert Arenas for the last two seasons? .

I was using an example of a very good defender in his early career. If you want to really talk about over-rated players, look no further than your avatar. .

Tim Wakefield fully deserves the spot.

This was a great match, but I still think that Roger Federer v.s. Rafael Nadal at Wimbledon was a better match.

All you listed were PPG, APG, RPG, ect. I adressed that point multiple times, whereas you just said "You didn't show anything". Go and look at the previous posts, or I can show you your posts. BTW your whole argument, which is just a lists of stats like you admitted yourself by saying the only way to compare players is by stats and accomplishments when everybody knows that's not true. .

So shocking you haven't add anything to this thread. .

Obviously because he was extremely talented, and I'm not denying that, but the amount of time he had the ball was probably a more than Kobe Bryant, therefore making it easier to get better stats.

Here's my problem with the first statement. Yes, early on in his career he lost to some pretty good teams, but some of those teams were on the decline. You can't always use stats from these totally different era's, especially when Michael Jordan had the ball in his hands pretty much every damn play. I'm just wondering, do you really think CP# is more skilled than Kobe Bryan and Michael Jordan?

And, Rajon Rondo carried the Boston Celtics in the playoffs this season without KG, and with a [expletive]ty Paul Pierce and a [expletive]ty Ray Allen while Devin Harris was home watching the game on t.v.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!? Out of everybody on "otr", you are the last person that I though would actually partially agree, and surprisingly, actually gave some reasoning unlike many people that have posted in this thread.

No, I thought one of the midgets was "MiluakeeBucksFan" in my avatar.

How can you possibly water down one of his songs? Is is like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6xpck4OSQ And, his "apology" song. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hS-n1SAdzQ

Nahh, he looks similar to your butt buddy though.

I didn't see your post. Yes, Kobe Bryant did trash his teammate, and I did not like that at all, but I'm trying to say that Michael Jordan would tell people that he thought certain players on his team weren't good enough, similar to what Kobe Bryant said one time, but Michael Jordan has a history of it. You know as well as I do that APG don't tell the whole story, and I'm sure you're smart enough to realize that, and the difference wasn't that great, and it helped that Michael Jordan had the ball in his hands all of the time. I will still say that he didn't face great competition in the playoffs and the NBA Finals, but that wasn't the point of me mentioning expansion teams. I'm saying that you are going to score more points and have better stats in the Regular Season, and yes, I know I am pushing it with this part of the argument, but it is something to consider. Seriously, only a few people, "ALCS", "Flash", and "MoeRoadKill" have given any reasons to this discussion. I find it humorous that everybody else is saying, "Wow, you have nothing to back your statements up with" and "Wow, you don't know what you're talking about" when none of you have given any reasons AT ALL. .

Every year there are going to be teams that aren't good, but there aren't always teams that are starting from scratch, which is the difference. Also, addressing the hand-checks, you are correct, but players back then, ESPECIALLY Michael Jordan could get away with pushing and offensive fouls on the offensive side of the ball. It worked both ways.

The Yankees worth is only 3rd to Man U and the Dallas Cowboys. Also, I am sure they have more money as well, considering they are the economic capital of the world.

He shouldn't have won some of those, as I stated in my first post. Yes, he was one of the best defensive guards in NBA history early in his career, but as his career went on, he was winning some awards based off of his name, and not his actual skill at that point. Honestly, he wasn't even the best defensive guard on his own team later in his career when Ron Harper was on the same team. So, yes, he was an excellent defender for a while, but some of the awards later in his career were based off of who he was. I''m glad I'm getting some actual responses, something "Agent Gil" and "Smitty" can't do.

I'm not trying to necessarily downgrade what Michael Jordan has accomplished because there is no doubt that it is great, but people over-rated his accomplishments. It's tough to compare stats from different era's, but Michael Jordan was a complete ball-hog and had made negative comments about his teammates not taking a particular shot because they weren't good enough. I'm just throwing this out there. There were six expansion teams that entered the league during Michael Jordan's prime, and that is part of the watered down competition he faced.

I like the avatar. Wentworth Miller is the man!

Sort of like how Ryan Howard owes his to "Citizens Bank"? . I'm kidding...sort of. http://www.otrbasketball.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif . I'm glad that the Boston Red Sox did not go after Matt Holliday last year. I really hope the Boston Red Sox get Adam Dunn is two seasons.

How is it a dumb statement? I can name 100+ players that deserve more money than Tori Hunter in the MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL, so it's not really a dumb statement at all. And, don't try and play it off like, "But he didn't criticize other players that should be on the list" because that is irrelevant, and he is correct.

No, I'm saying people vastly over-rate what Michael Jordan has done, and that people vastly under-rated Scottie Pippen. I hate the Lakers, but I still think that Kobe Bryant is more skilled than Michael Jordan, especially on the offensive side of the ball, and even on the defensive side of the ball.

Scottie Pippen had a better playoff record, and as I said, Scottie Pippen only had one losing season without Michael Jordan, and Michael Jordan had 5 losing seasons, and missed the playoffs twice.