EastCoastNiner

That is the whole problem. You guys lack comprehension skills. You don't automatically become the best or lose your title of being the best based on who your QB is. Is Brandon Llyod better than Calvin Johnson because he has a better QB and better stats? No. Being the best has very little baring on who you QB is. You'll perform better with a better QB, but you either have it or you don't.

That's certainly true. I think the whole disagreement in here is that some of you think that you can't be the best player at your position without the best stats. That's what I'm disagreeing with, Calvin will be tearing up this league for years to come, especially when he signs with the Patriots when he reaches free-agency.

MJ's a damn chump. He played with much more watered down competition, when the "legends" were on their last leg, and when the league was in an expansion mode. This guy is a fraud.

That's not what I was saying. I'm saying that you can still be the best WR in the league without putting up the best stats. Do you honestly think that Moss wouldn't have been one of the top WR's taken if the the first one if GM's had a chance to pick any WR to add to their team while he was in Oakland? The skill was there, but the statis weren't. Also, I think Calvin and Andre are close, but I have always liked Calvin and think he's by far the most physically gifted WR in the league. He has Shaun Hill throwing to him and is still putting up good stats.

Let's break it down: - You said Andre was the best in another thread, and then said Calvin would be the best if he had a better QB. Notice I never said he wasn't a wasted talent? - Moss WAS a wasted talent in Oakland, but he was still the best WR in the game.

Are you really that retarded? You said that Calvin Johnson is the biggest waste of talent, which I NEVER argued. However, you said that if he had a better QB he'd be the best WR in the game and you also said Andre is the best. You don't even know what you said. Not once did I mention you said Calvin wasn't a wasted talent. Do I really need to show you what you are saying and why you aren't making sense? My argument never was that Calvin isn't a wasted talent. It never had to do with that. I'm saying you said two different players were the best at their position, and I asked which one it was.

That's where you are completely wrong. Stats don't really tell how good you are. They tell how you perform which is completely different. Performance and talent are different things, and being the best at something is largely about talent.

So, he just magically becomes the best WR if he has a QB? How the [expletive] does that make ANY sense? Maybe he'll have the best stats if he has a different QB, but what you are saying makes no sense. I get your point, but it's worded improperly. You don't just become the best by changing QB's. You either have it or you don't. Your stats will increase with a better QB, but your talent level doesn't change based on who your QB is.

He had 8 1/2 sacks in the 5 games after his suspension in 2006. He then had 12 1/2 sacks in 2007. The injuries set in after, and may have been a result of the steroid use, but he did perform well right after his suspension.

Actually, that's not true at all. He still racked up a lot of sacks after he was caught using steroids. However, the use of steroids may have contributed to his body breaking down and his poor play and missed games over the past few seasons.

Losing Grant is big, but you're acting like you guys have been sucking because a lot of your players have been injured even though Finley and Woodson got injured LAST game, not the first or second game. GTFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, you're either the best or you're not. You don't need the best stats to be considered the best, so the situation is irrelevant. It's like saying Randy Moss was still a poor WR when he was in Oakland, when that is just completely false.

The injuries you guys have suffered are minor in the larger scope of things. Those injuries played a minimal role in you guys losing the games you've lost. If Rodgers is out for an extended period of time, go ahead and [expletive] about it because that's a big deal, but up until this point, those injuries have had little to no meaning in the Packer's losses so far.

His three Super Bowls and Super Bowl MVP's say otherwise, so yes, he did contradict himself. I could really care less if he did, but I'd like to know who he thinks is better because his opinion was different just a month ago. You could say he was a better QB than Manning BEFORE he got his WR's, and that wouldn't be a contradiction at all. He's saying Andre is the best, and then said that Calvin would be the best with a better QB. You're either the best or not regardless of who's throwing to you. Putting up stats is a different story, but being the best has mostly to do with talent and performance.

You said Andre Johnson was the best WR in the league, and then you said if Calvin has a QB he'd be "hands down" the best in the league. That's a complete contradiction. So, just saying "if he had a better QB" doesn't make much sense because you're either the best or you're not. I don't really care one way or the other, but you're flip flopping. So, which one is it then?

You were saying?

Again, they need to win BOTH games against the Cardinals, stop making stupid mistakes, and hope Max Hall sucks.

Nmamdi only plays one side of the field and he just got torched last week. I think he's slightly over-rated. Anyways, I think it's definitely Steven Jackson. Also, Joe Thomas has been getting schooled this year.

Going from 6'1 and 160 pounds as a junior in high school to 6'3 and 250 pounds now raises a big red flag. Not to mention his dad was a juicer, and him and Brian Cushing were both linked to steroids at the combine.

That's the furthest thing from the truth. I've called Ortiz a juicer from day one and have said the Manny probably did them as well. Phightins will back me up on this as well, so...so much for that.

He's a lottttttttttttttttttttttt bigger than he was in college, and the weight he gained from high school through college is astronomical and near impossible to gain. I would not be surprised if Taylor Mays was on them as well, so it has nothing to do with jealousy. You're probably just like one of those people that tried to call me out for saying A-Rod was a juicer a few years back, and look who's laughing now. Brian Cushing was the same way. I just don't think Matthews is clean, and no, I don't have tests to prove it, but I'm highly suspicious of him being on the juice.

At least that useless agitator got rocked.

They can, but they haven't really affected the Packers too much yet. If Rodgers is out, it's a different story, but when a juicer is out, I could care less.

I feel terrible for Finley, but I feel almost as bad for everyone here that will have to deal with lkr and his excuses if/when the Packers lose. .

Yes, because you and lkr bring the 49er's into every thread when it has no relevence. If Brett Farve is a Pro-Bowler at 40, I'm pretty damn confident Brady will be in his mid to late 30's. Three more QUALITY picks does make a massive different. That's how the Patriots have built their WINNING teams throughout the years.