Nitro

Yep. Two players that made All-Defensive teams last season are average defenders. Right. So is/was KG. Your point? And he played great defense at the 2008 Olympics. Let's see him on a defense-oriented team where he's playing his natural position before calling him a pathetic defender. Ask Dirk.

I think it has more to do with him playing out of position a lot. Last season he played over triple the amount of time at SG as opposed to SF. At SF, he allowed 10% EFG worse shooting than at SG. In 2008-2009, he played each position half the time and had similar success defending SF's as opposed to SG. In 2007-2008, he played absolutely no SG and much like every season his opponent counterpart numbers at SF were stellar. I also think it's kinda hypocritical to leave Battier out of the top 5 when you have Artest and Kobe, who have both lost a step or two, in your top 3. Watching a LOT of Rockets games from 04-09 (I'm a T-Mac stan) I can tell you that Battier's a better defensive player than Ron, and certainly better than Kobe.

Eh go with Nets lol...

Rebounding for a PG is EXTREMELY valuable. When your PG is grabbing 7.4 boards per game like Kidd did in 04-05, that's a huge boost to the team. In fact, that season he LED THE NETS IN REBOUNDING! As you mentioned, it is also an awesome tool to have for transition oppertunities, which is one of the major reasons Kidd's Nets made the Finals twice. Even if the fastbreak doesn't earn him a bucket, it still puts a lot of pressure on the defense. I was just watching the 2002 NBA Finals game 3 on Monday and countless times he's grab the board, rush down the floor, and as the defense was finally starting to set he'd hit an open cutter on the baseline or for a 3 pointer. His rebounding opens up offense. He was also crap defensively with the Mavs as well. In his prime Kidd was absolutely an elite defender. Quick enough to guard explosive PG's, strong enough to guard post-up PG's like Chauncey Billups and Baron Davis. No...just no. If you are going to say Nash is LIGHT YEARS ahead in playmaking, you have to use the same excuse you used for Nash's defense...the system. If this were the summer of 2004 (summer he signed with Phoenix, was 30 years old), no one would say Nash is light years a better playmaker. In fact, most would say Jason Kidd's the better playmaker. Nash never even averaged 9.0APG on the Mavs. Kidd had Keith Van Horn, Kenyon Martin and Kerry Kittles to pass to during the back-to-back Finals appearances. That was, despite their fastbreaking style, a defense-oriented team. Nash has been on an all-offense team since 2004 with guys like Amare Stoudemire, Shawn Marion, Jason Richardson, Joe Johnson and plenty of others to pass to. Anyway, I'd pick Nash by a VERY small margin. They are about even as passers/playmakers, and while a prime Kidd was a much better defender, Nash is a much better scorer. Kidd simply has always had too many nights and long stretches where no shot he takes will go down. With Nash, if he has any room, it's going in.

They could be with all that talent, but they are too inconsistent. The thing that made the 2004 Pistons and 2008 Celtics so great on that end of the floor was they came with the mentality to shut you down every single night. The Lakers do not. With the additions of Barnes, Blake and Ratliff (who, to be fair, hasn't played at least 60 games in the last 5 seasons), the bench's defense should get a lot better, which will be a major boost. But as long as Fisher is the starting PG, Kobe keeps turning the on/off switch and Bynum learns better rotations, I think they'll just be a great defensive team. Not all-time great.

BTW I was just looking it up and the 2007-2008 Celtics held teams to 41.9% shooting, not 38%.

SumtiNSpecial. Dabearfan is a Illuminati hater

That's for every perimeter defensive player, though. The great offensive players will almost always beat the great defensive player. Help defense is how you shutdown superstars, as the Boston Celtics have proven many times.

I got bored so I'll be first to post in this tourney.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This a verbal stickup so sit up and listen I’ll leave you [expletive]ed up like Real Deal’s vision Ha, I hope that doesn’t warrant a ban But I’ll be damned if I lose to a Warriors stan Who posts about Illuminati expecting vast disccusion When its tat’d on my arm, planning mass destruction You labeled as a writer, but my flow is even tighter Your raps are like bad head, ya nothing but a biter The Warriors swung hard yet they [expletive]in bunted I’m cyber hittin blunts, ya reputations growth has stunted Confidence spared you twice, a silly little price To enter up this slughter, I burn in holy water Cuz I’m a demon who’s treatin you like a lady “Ladies exit first!” ask Tracy McGrady I’m done with this [expletive], it’s already dead to me Gimme my +1, so begins my Legacy

Not to interrupt ya'll, but even though he's a half-step slower than a year or two ago, he's still the smartest perimeter defender in the league. Plays hard, knows how to play angles, make strong use of face-guarding, takes charges, etc... IMO the one year he was with Houston I thought he was clearly a better player than Artest.

First round has been posted in the Run Yo Mouth forum. I just used the order we signed up in, threw the names in a hat, and out came the result. As opposed to the last contest, I've made it so the higher seeds (#-wise) for first. If you are ranked #4 and are playing #5, #4 is expected to post first.

Rules 1) 16 lines max. 2) At least one of those lines must be about your opponent's favorite sports team (basketball, football, etc). 3) One line has to end with your opponent's display name on OTR. You can exclude numbers. For example, "Fish" can be used in this battle. 4) Cussing will be censored if you decide to use it. Don't bypass the censor with asterisks or other symbols. 5) If you say Dick Vitale's first name, please censor it yourself by typing [expletive]. In the manner it would be used in this contest, it should be filtered out. NOBODY ELSE POST IN THIS TOPIC UNTIL THE SECOND RAP IS ADDED. After both competitors are finished, members can place their vote. Please explain your vote. The lower seeds (#-wise) go first. Based on this match-up, Blazed49 will be asked to post his. You have two days to post.

Rules 1) 16 lines max. 2) At least one of those lines must be about your opponent's favorite sports team (basketball, football, etc). 3) One line has to end with your opponent's display name on OTR. You can exclude numbers. For example, "Fish" can be used in this battle. 4) Cussing will be censored if you decide to use it. Don't bypass the censor with asterisks or other symbols. 5) If you say Dick Vitale's first name, please censor it yourself by typing [expletive]. In the manner it would be used in this contest, it should be filtered out. NOBODY ELSE POST IN THIS TOPIC UNTIL THE SECOND RAP IS ADDED. After both competitors are finished, members can place their vote. Please explain your vote. The lower seed (@-wise) go first. Based on this match-up, Confidencewill be asked to post his. You have two days to post.

Rules 1) 16 lines max. 2) At least one of those lines must be about your opponent's favorite sports team (basketball, football, etc). 3) One line has to end with your opponent's display name on OTR. You can exclude numbers. For example, "Fish" can be used in this battle. 4) Cussing will be censored if you decide to use it. Don't bypass the censor with asterisks or other symbols. 5) If you say Dick Vitale's first name, please censor it yourself by typing [expletive]. In the manner it would be used in this contest, it should be filtered out. NOBODY ELSE POST IN THIS TOPIC UNTIL THE SECOND RAP IS ADDED. After both competitors are finished, members can place their vote. Please explain your vote. The lower seeds (#-wise) go first. Based on this match-up, Hawks Fly High will be asked to post his, followed by Swish. You have two days to post.

Rules 1) 16 lines max. 2) At least one of those lines must be about your opponent's favorite sports team (basketball, football, etc). 3) One line has to end with your opponent's display name on OTR. You can exclude numbers. For example, "Fish" can be used in this battle. 4) Cussing will be censored if you decide to use it. Don't bypass the censor with asterisks or other symbols. 5) If you say Dick Vitale's first name, please censor it yourself by typing [expletive]. In the manner it would be used in this contest, it should be filtered out. NOBODY ELSE POST IN THIS TOPIC UNTIL THE SECOND RAP IS ADDED. After both competitors are finished, members can place their vote. Please explain your vote. The lower seeds (#-wise) go first. Based on this match-up, Nitro will be asked to post his. You have two days to post.

Ehh...I don't know about a Martin/Melo pair. If this was T-Mac of '05-'07, then you might be right. But two guys that love to have the ball in their hands and are neither impressive playmakers is a recepie for disaster. Not to mention Yao isn't exactly Chris Webber or Bill Walton passing the ball. That's not even mentioning the biggest issue; Yao's foot. As for Melo preferring Houston, I'm inclined to paraphrase what CP3 said about possibly being traded to the Blazers awhile back...If you demand a trade and a certain team makes an offer, why would Melo choose a team that would require much of what makes them a pretty damn good team already be traded away? When he could be an unrestricted FA in just a year.

Bingo, which is why I didn't put him in my personal top 5. Last season he managed just 24.9MPG becuase of 4.0 foul per game. I was very big on Oden when he was coming out of Ohio State, and had it not been for the injuries I think he would have probably won DPOY this season. Howeverrrrr he's played just 82 games in 3 combined seasons. I just can't put him on the listen until he proves something. If he did a bang-up job on Yao in the 2009 playoffs, that would have been a great start to making his claim.

First off, J-Rich ain't the athlete JR is at the moment, but back in the day? J-Rich was a FREAK. Secondly, have elite skills are just a part of being a truly elite player. You got to have heart, proper attitude, discipline, maturity and ways you can effectively (and efficiently) maximize your skills. Why everyone questions JR is for all these reasons. And time is ticking away. A lot of those things don't change6-7 years into the league. Because of this guy... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNmU1esUF4k

This is really, really tough... 1) Dwight Howard 2) Shane Battier 3) Ron Artest 4) Kevin Garnett (blah blag blah he's old...his defense is still the key to the Celtics' success) 5) Thabo Selfolosha

My favorite T-Mac video (I'm sorry youtube took the audi down...listen to Too Much by the Game while watching it) is this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGyyWdRsQ5o&feature=related He was my favorite player for many years. Watched every Rockets game for 2 years in Chinese because I wanted to see him play/ It's a damn shame he had a fragile body and a severe lack of motivation. You heard it here- T-Mac is arguably the only player in the league that is PROBABLY more talented than Kobe (I've seen Kobe bite at least 2 of T-Mac's moves, too). He was an unebelievably well-rounded scorer, amazing passer at his position, had better handles than other elite swingmen (like Kobe, LeBron, JJ, etc... )grabbed boards, played decent defense and the thing about him that's way underrated is that HE DID SHOW-UP and played very well in the playoffs; 28.5PPG/6.9RPG/6.2APG CAREER in post-season. It was difficult watching him last year.

They shoulda just changed his outfit... http://www.nerve.com/files/archive/modernmaterialist/2009/03/pinkranger.jpg Seriously though, that's a pretty sweet job. I don't care wtf people are calling me if I'm on the set of a popular show/movie. They can laugh all they want because in 10-15 years they'll either be sucking [expletive] for crack or pumping gas.

Ummm...not as dominant, sure. But they had the #1 seed that year in the West in 2007 before Bynum went down. As for Gasol vs. Bosh, I might give the slight edge to Gasol, but it's very close. The only reason Pau is so widely acclaimed is because he is on the Lakers. He got a bt better and tougher, but he has the same damn skills as when he was with the Grizzles. Bosh is a better rebounder, more versatile scorer and has the speed to defend the more athletic PF's out there (see- Olympics). Don't get me wrong, I'd probably take Gasol for his elite post game and passing skills as well (along with his sligttly overrated defense). I just think Gasol has been a tad bit overrated since coming to the Lakers. As for the list, Dirk HAS to be at the top of the list. I don't quite understand how he isn't, and I've argued how Dirk is better than Gasol to death with Erick Blasco so I won't go any further into it. But regardless, he should be #1 without a doubt.

Wonderful. I'll throw the names and make up each member's number thay way. It'll start in an hour when I have the topics up. Same rules as last time where the lower seeds begin first. Also this time there'll be a 3 day limit to post your rap instead of 2.. Best of luck!

Even better... http://www.youtube.com/user/mamba9381 Watching this Lakers-Nets game from the 2002 Finals is really making me reminisce. Dominant Shaq, young Kobe, a Laker team who knows how to run the triangle offense consistently, J-Kidd before microfracture (my favorite Net ever, saw him so many times in person have spectacular games), crazy and athletic K-Mart, and a pretty wild Continental Airlines Arena!

Today is Kobe Bryant's 32nd birthday, and NBATV is running many of his classic games all day. Right now it's Lakers vs Nets from the 2002 Finals, and starting at 2pm is his 81pt game :glasses: