Orlando at Miami

[Poe]

Bosh is criminally underrated as a defender. He obviously isn't lockdown, but he is an average, potentially above average, defender, especially playing on a top team that will actually expect him to have defensive responsibility.

 

Very true. He can't be the anchor a great defensive team, but he can certainly be part of one. Especially when he is going from a team where he had to carry the load offensively for 38 mpg, to now being the third option and feeding off of great playmakers (which will start to show itself in time).

[Real Deal]

Score was 38-35 when Vince got hurt, and 58-35 after the injury.

 

I've been on the "Vince sucks" bus for a long time now, but his presence out there helps open up the floor, because he's a threat on the baseline (a big threat). With Howard in the post, guys like Redick, Nelson and even Lewis will slip outside and knock down shots.

 

Live by the three, die by the three, and without a slasher raking in extra defensive attention (or a post threat, or in this case, both), shots are easier to contest. Basketball 101.

 

I wasn't happy with Howard after a while, though. He went away from his game, started trying to catch the ball outside of the paint more, taking jumpers and long hooks, stuff he shouldn't be doing against Anthony, Magloire or even Ilgauskas.

 

Unfortunately, those are a few reasons why Orlando isn't going to reach the Finals this season.

[platoon793]

While I do agree Carter would have made some difference, I think you are exaggerating a bit. He was 1-5 for the game, and the Heat defense forced him to take shots and he drove a few times but he wasn't very successful. His +/- was also -26, which was the lowest for the whole Magic team, with Rashard Lewis 2nd at -25.

 

While I do give credit to the Heat defense for playing some great defense, Magic did miss a good amount of open threes, especially Rashard Lewis. Personally I see that as the biggest reason they lost. 4-24 from downtown won't cut it.

Edited October 30, 2010 by platoon793

[Real Deal]

While I do agree Carter would have made some difference, I think you are exaggerating a bit. He was 1-5 for the game, and the Heat defense forced him to take shots and he drove a few times but he wasn't very successful. His +/- was also -26, which was the lowest for the whole Magic team, with Rashard Lewis 2nd at -25.

 

While I do give credit to the Heat defense for playing some great defense, Magic did miss a good amount of open threes, especially Rashard Lewis. Personally I see that as the biggest reason they lost. 4-24 from downtown won't cut it.

The +/- stats are one of the worst things to look at in the league.

 

http://www.nba.com/games/20101029/LALPHX/gameinfo.html

 

Scroll down to Phoenix, and compare Grant Hill to Channing Frye...looking at both +/- and overall production.

 

Worthless stat.

[SRV]

The combination of [expletive]ty three point shooting, Dwight's foul trouble, Lewis being completely useless, Carter getting injured, our defense, and the fact that it was the home opener made that game look wayyyyy to easy. If we can win games this easily I would be a happy fan, but it would get boring if we destroy teams just by showing up. I mean, its just the 3rd game of the season and we made the "best" team in the East look like draft lottery contestants. I am sure last night was the perfect storm for a blowout, but who knows, we might just be that good of a defensive team.

[platoon793]

The +/- stats are one of the worst things to look at in the league.

 

http://www.nba.com/games/20101029/LALPHX/gameinfo.html

 

Scroll down to Phoenix, and compare Grant Hill to Channing Frye...looking at both +/- and overall production.

 

Worthless stat.

 

I do agree that it doesn't say much, but it can be accurate from time to time.

 

The point is Carter was being contained very well by the Heat anyway. I'm guessing you saw the game, and if I remember correctly he was forced into jumpshots and only drove a couple of times and missed. And the Magic three pointers were missing open three pointers all night. I doubt his presence would have been a huge factor. Of course, he could have turned it on, but I doubt it would have been enough for the Magic to win.

Edited October 30, 2010 by platoon793

[Erick Blasco]

I wish people would listen to Jeff Van Gundy more. He said that the Magic were not one of the championship contenders this year. Steve Kerr got word of that and basically said "What is JVG talking about, of course the Magic are a contender." Then the Magic get drilled by the Heat. Even Stan Van Gundy said after the game that his team doesn't have the great one-on-one players that the contenders have, and that his team isn't a great passing team (being a team that generates assists is a lot different than being a great passing team).

 

Orlando is a very, very good team, but they're a solid notch below Miami and Boston.

[Flash]

If you really think Carter was a big part of this game then idk what to tell you. You're basically looking for way to not give Miami credit.

[Real Deal]

You're basically looking for way to not give Miami credit.

LOL, that's right, because saying I think they can make the Finals is really slapping the team in the face.

 

Miami played some of the best defense I've ever seen in NBA history, and if they didn't let their foot off the pedal, they would've defeated the Magic by 60.

 

Hope that's good enough for you guys.

[Flash]

LOL, that's right, because saying I think they can make the Finals is really slapping the team in the face.

 

Miami played some of the best defense I've ever seen in NBA history, and if they didn't let their foot off the pedal, they would've defeated the Magic by 60.

 

Hope that's good enough for you guys.

 

I'm talking about your previous post. Not anywhere did you credit Miami's defense. Instead you used an excuse about none other than Vince Carter?! C'mon now. I realize Orlando missed a ton of shots that they could've made and while it wasn't completely Miami's defense that shut them down, we had a big part in keeping them in check.

[Real Deal]

I'm talking about your previous post. Not anywhere did you credit Miami's defense. Instead you used an excuse about none other than Vince Carter?! C'mon now. I realize Orlando missed a ton of shots that they could've made and while it wasn't completely Miami's defense that shut them down, we had a big part in keeping them in check.

I was talking about how much Vince can open things up for his teammates, and how Orlando would've found room to benefit from it, eventually, instead of forcing up shots. That's 24 points in the first quarter, 25 points total in the second half. Five threes attempted in 18 minutes before his injury, 19 threes in the remaining 30 minutes.

 

I shouldn't have to say that the Heat are the better team. We know. I clearly stated that Orlando lived and died by the three, just like they have every season for a few years now. They shot 4-24 (or something close to that) from downtown. Howard had all 19 of his points in the first half. The entire team was missing open shots like the Heat were missing them against the Celtics (and I distinctly remember those comments).

 

But, well...Heat defense!

[Real Deal]

I wish people would listen to Jeff Van Gundy more. He said that the Magic were not one of the championship contenders this year. Steve Kerr got word of that and basically said "What is JVG talking about, of course the Magic are a contender." Then the Magic get drilled by the Heat. Even Stan Van Gundy said after the game that his team doesn't have the great one-on-one players that the contenders have, and that his team isn't a great passing team (being a team that generates assists is a lot different than being a great passing team).

 

Orlando is a very, very good team, but they're a solid notch below Miami and Boston.

If Boston happens to knock off Miami in a second round match-up, and Orlando advances to the ECF against Boston, they suddenly become contenders.

 

LA was crushed by Denver in their 9th game of the season last year, 105-79. It was an issue, but we were without Gasol. So, we walked into the Christmas game, in LA, and were picked apart by the Cavaliers, 102-87, with a healthy roster. Three days later, the Suns beat us by 15.

 

People were talking about how we were being exposed, and that it looked as if Denver, Dallas, or Phoenix were going to find their way into the WCF and defeat us.

 

There were many that expected an upset in the first round, the way Bryant was playing in the second half of the season (with the injury) and the way our team finished the regular season (11-10 in our last 21).

 

But, when JVG mentioned that the Magic were not a contender, he also mentioned (during the game) that the Heat were un-guardable. Not only that, but I'm sure you heard him say the Houston Rockets will upset the Lakers in the WCF this season, and go on to play the Heat in the Finals.

[Erick Blasco]

If Boston happens to knock off Miami in a second round match-up, and Orlando advances to the ECF against Boston, they suddenly become contenders.

 

LA was crushed by Denver in their 9th game of the season last year, 105-79. It was an issue, but we were without Gasol. So, we walked into the Christmas game, in LA, and were picked apart by the Cavaliers, 102-87, with a healthy roster. Three days later, the Suns beat us by 15.

 

People were talking about how we were being exposed, and that it looked as if Denver, Dallas, or Phoenix were going to find their way into the WCF and defeat us.

 

There were many that expected an upset in the first round, the way Bryant was playing in the second half of the season (with the injury) and the way our team finished the regular season (11-10 in our last 21).

 

But, when JVG mentioned that the Magic were not a contender, he also mentioned (during the game) that the Heat were un-guardable. Not only that, but I'm sure you heard him say the Houston Rockets will upset the Lakers in the WCF this season, and go on to play the Heat in the Finals.

 

Did he really say the Rockets will upset the Lakers in the WCF this year? I didn't watch the Heat-Magic game so I missed his commentary, but I strongly doubt JVG would say something like that unless he was in blatant homer mode. Did he say the Rockets CAN upset the Lakers?

 

Of the games you're mentioning, Denver was a championship caliber team based on how they closed 2009 and opened last season. Once Denver lost their coach, and once Artest got integrated in LA (plus the regressions by so many key players), the Nuggets became a implosion waiting to happen. Phoenix was never a real title contender, and Cleveland had the talent and discipline to win a title, but lacked the heart.

 

This Magic team lacks wing creativity. Good defenses can muddle up execution and then it comes down to can a player make a play. Nelson's a bit too slow, and isn't a great passer. Carter is as soft as it comes. That's a real problem against healthy Heat, Celtics, and Lakers teams.

 

I don't even think the Magic can beat a healthy Celtics team for the same reasons I listed above.

[Poe]

Did he really say the Rockets will upset the Lakers in the WCF this year? I didn't watch the Heat-Magic game so I missed his commentary, but I strongly doubt JVG would say something like that unless he was in blatant homer mode. Did he say the Rockets CAN upset the Lakers?

 

There were a number of listed predictions shown on the screen answered by him and Mark Jackson during one of the time outs I believe, including basic things like "who will be ROY?". I don't remember his other answers, but I do remember him having Rockets vs Heat as his NBA Finals matchup prediction. It was clearly a serious answer.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Poe

[Poe]

And JVG is right. Once the Heat develops full chemistry and fully understands Spo's system like second nature, they will be unguardable. I don't distinctly remember him saying the Heat are unguardable myself, but I'll take RD's word for it. And again, he's completely right. If anyone disagrees... well... at least you are finding a way to stay hopeful.

 

 

Edit: BTW, I don't think I can agree with the Rockets being better than the Lakers. Houston doesn't have the means to matchup with Gasol.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Poe

[Erick Blasco]

There were a number of listed predictions shown on the screen answered by him and Mark Jackson during one of the time outs I believe, including basic things like "who will be ROY?". I don't remember his other answers, but I do remember him having Rockets vs Heat as his NBA Finals matchup prediction. It was clearly a serious answer.

 

Then mark it down, the Rockets will play the Heat in the Finals this year!!!