Connecticut elementary school shooting

[DunkinDerozan]

Hey guys if we ban marijuana people won't smoke it, it'll be harder to get illegally

 

lol. Difference is that just about anyone can grow their own marijuana if they want to, where as guns can only be made in a gun factory. Not really any way of making your own gun.

 

Also I've seen a lot of people posting/sharing this picture on facebook:

 

http://sphotos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/179586_10152351678580374_213763447_n.jpg

[NomarFachix]

Few talk about this...but when the "Batman shooter" went online and ordered all of his ammo, guns and military gear...he received it within a week, I believe. What if new gun laws make it FAR tougher for him? It takes longer to get things like that, and MAYBE that extra week (or longer) gives a roommate or family member time and reason to get him checked out.

I posted about this on the last page.

 

"People were scared of him, the FBI was aware of him, his counselor from college was frightened and reaching out to law enforcement. With a little more time, all those red flags might've done some good and gotten some actionable attention. Or he might've just chickened out entirely when he realized he couldn't order mil-spec body armor online.

 

What-ifs are generally bullshit, but tighter legislation would have made planning his massacre more time consuming, expensive, and dangerous."

Edited December 15, 2012 by iMan

[Real Deal]

I posted about this on the last page.

 

"People were scared of him, the FBI was aware of him, his counselor from college was frightened and reaching out to law enforcement. With a little more time, all those red flags might've done some good and gotten some actionable attention. Or he might've just chickened out entirely when he realized he couldn't order mil-spec body armor online.

 

What-ifs are generally bullshit, but tighter legislation would have made planning his massacre more time consuming, expensive, and dangerous."

Hop, skipped and jumped over that one.

[Real Deal]

And really quick...giving the stabbings, to elementary school kids, as examples of how you can do harm without a gun...it's kind of cheap. Any man can go to a playground and snap kids' necks with his bare hands. Let's go back to James Holmes (Batman shooter)...would he have had much success with a knife in a movie theater, with adults? Nope. How easy would it be for a wrestler to go into a meet and shoot up everyone in it? What if he tried killing everyone in that meet with a knife?

 

If all of these people can act out ANYTHING, in any way, without a gun...then why is it so important that we NEED guns to go to war against a corrupt government? Can't we use crossbows, knives, and rocks? Nope...we need guns because they are simply more lethal...much easier to use to kill groups of people with, create far more separation, etc.

 

Sure, a man will enter an elementary school with a knife, against pencil-wielding children and teachers that are usually female (at that grade level). You think that same man would be ignorant enough to walk into a frat house with a knife? Nope, he's taking an assault rifle, and people will scatter as he shoots them in their backs. Don't compare the two, ever.

[EastCoastNiner]

Point is, it shouldn't take five minutes for anyone to buy a gun and ammo. It shouldn't take a simple online order to land legitimate military gear and weapons.

 

I don't think guns should be banned, but I also don't think everyone should have access to one so easily.

 

I read a suggestion that teachers should have guns. Nah. I went to school with kids that went ballistic in classrooms, and that were expelled and sent to a detention center...and that was back when this wasn't so common. Having a gun in every classroom, locked up or not, doesn't sit well with me. An irresponsible teacher, leaving a drawer open, keys on the desk, etc...can unintentionally be responsible for a classroom turning into multiple funerals.

 

Except your point about being able to purchase those guns easily has absolutely nothing to do with this particular case, which a few of you don't seem to understand, or simply want to use your anti-gun propaganda. The kid got the guns from his moms house. If you want to argue that she should have had them secure, fine, but this has nothing to do with being able to go to a store or online and purchase ammo. It's just become another platform for the misinformed and misguided left to spread their propaganda.

 

No, teachers should not have guns. I saw that suggestion yesterday too. Teachers can be some of the most unstable and emotional people, and all it takes is one comment to set one of them off, and then disaster could ensue right after.

 

 

Also, I find it interesting how you guys (not you in particular) keep claiming that "criminals will be criminals" and will be able to find a weapon is a bogus argument. Sorry, but that's a FACT, and it happens time after time after time. If someone wants to get a lethal weapon like a gun, they will find a way to get it.

 

 

 

Once again, no one has answered the question. If you want gun-control, how exactly are you going to go about it with all of the guns already out there? I don't have a problem with certain aspects of gun-control, but many of the ideas are simply unrealistic. It's probably already too late to do much about it.

[EastCoastNiner]

My thoughts EXACTLY. If that kid goes to the hood to buy a gun he's getting robbed, beaten and left in an alley. It's really not easy to get a gun off the streets if you're not connected, trust me.

 

Try again.

 

I'll let you do the research on how many of the 61 mass shootings in the past 20 years were from people who obtained guns legally versus illegally.

 

Hint: You're going to look foolish for your statement.

Edited December 15, 2012 by EastCoastNiner

[Real Deal]

Except your point about being able to purchase those guns easily has absolutely nothing to do with this particular case, which a few of you don't seem to understand, or simply want to use your anti-gun propaganda. The kid got the guns from his moms house. If you want to argue that she should have had them secure, fine, but this has nothing to do with being able to go to a store or online and purchase ammo. It's just become another platform for the misinformed and misguided left to spread their propaganda.

10,000+ homicides by a firearm every year, and nearly double that in suicides by gun. I'm not talking about this particular case...already stated that, I believe. I'm not saying this to stop all gun-related incidents, because that won't happen, and guns on the black market will ALWAYS exist. That's not the point.

 

But if you can already get them illegally, why allow people to get them SO EASILY legally? At least make it tougher one direction.

 

Once again, no one has answered the question. If you want gun-control, how exactly are you going to go about it with all of the guns already out there? I don't have a problem with certain aspects of gun-control, but many of the ideas are simply unrealistic. It's probably already too late to do much about it.

Well, that's more of a question to those who want to get rid of them altogether. You can start by just making it difficult to get them, simple as that...make it a process.

 

The people that have guns, already, usually have just one for protection OR they collect them. The collectors will eventually run through the process. You're weeding out a lot of people there.

 

---------------

 

About a month ago, we had a guy snap and shoot someone in my town...over $40. Sure, he could have stabbed him...but I'm pretty sure everyone here will agree that they'd rather be stabbed, and have a better chance to live, than to be shot in the head (like he was). Was that guy going to go make a bomb in five minutes, come back and threaten the guy for his $40? Doubt that.

 

Again, guns are available on the "black market" anyway. Always will be. I see no point in letting the average Joe walk into Wal-Mart to buy a gun and ammo any time of the day, no matter who he is.

 

Shootings may be so common where most of you live, but not in my town until this last year or so...and the funny thing is, most every shooting that happens in this area isn't coming from crazed people...it's from angry people, over money, drugs, or relationships. Even people that I have interacted with over the last five years (playing basketball, mostly). Sure, there's something not right with a guy that wants to murder, but in the process, they aren't planning it for weeks or months, and they aren't killing multiple people to make a statement...it's out of anger, in the moment.

 

So it's not all about unstable people, planning to go nuts. There's more to it than that, just like there's more to it than having a gun in your possession. Multiple things need attention, but at least SOME form of control (better control) needs touched on as well.

[EastCoastNiner]

10,000+ homicides by a firearm every year, and nearly double that in suicides by gun. I'm not talking about this particular case...already stated that, I believe. I'm not saying this to stop all gun-related incidents, because that won't happen, and guns on the black market will ALWAYS exist. That's not the point.

 

But if you can already get them illegally, why allow people to get them SO EASILY legally? At least make it tougher one direction.

 

 

Well, that's more of a question to those who want to get rid of them altogether. You can start by just making it difficult to get them, simple as that...make it a process.

 

The people that have guns, already, usually have just one for protection OR they collect them. The collectors will eventually run through the process. You're weeding out a lot of people there.

 

---------------

 

About a month ago, we had a guy snap and shoot someone in my town...over $40. Sure, he could have stabbed him...but I'm pretty sure everyone here will agree that they'd rather be stabbed, and have a better chance to live, than to be shot in the head (like he was). Was that guy going to go make a bomb in five minutes, come back and threaten the guy for his $40? Doubt that.

 

Again, guns are available on the "black market" anyway. Always will be. I see no point in letting the average Joe walk into Wal-Mart to buy a gun and ammo any time of the day, no matter who he is.

 

Shootings may be so common where most of you live, but not in my town until this last year or so...and the funny thing is, most every shooting that happens in this area isn't coming from crazed people...it's from angry people, over money, drugs, or relationships. Even people that I have interacted with over the last five years (playing basketball, mostly). Sure, there's something not right with a guy that wants to murder, but in the process, they aren't planning it for weeks or months, and they aren't killing multiple people to make a statement...it's out of anger, in the moment.

 

So it's not all about unstable people, planning to go nuts. There's more to it than that, just like there's more to it than having a gun in your possession. Multiple things need attention, but at least SOME form of control (better control) needs touched on as well.

 

I don't disagree with most of what you have said. However, I'm not saying that guns don't make it easier to kill people. Everyone should know that guns do make it easier to kill people, but I would bet a lot of these mass shootings that have happened over the years were planned out. If they were planned out, they could have certainly built a device in that time to carry out their act as well.

 

At the end of the day, I do think it may be too late for real gun control. People will always be making them illegally and selling them illegally. I don't really see how anyone can deny that. Yes, it will make it harder to the average citizen to get a gun, but that defeats the entire purpose of gun control. Those that want to commit the crimes will have no problem trying to go around the system and get their weapon illegally. You'll probably argue that gun control will make that harder for them to do, but at the end of the day, they will probably get what they want.

 

At the end of the day, it comes down to the person themselves. This really shouldn't be much about guns, as the guns used in these shootings are barely any different than hunting weapons. However, the media has no clue about any of that and likes to act like some of these guns are solely crazy military weapons when in fact many people hunt animals with them.

[Guru]

Try again.

 

I'll let you do the research on how many of the 61 mass shootings in the past 20 years were from people who obtained guns legally versus illegally.

 

Hint: You're going to look foolish for your statement.

 

And how many of those "illegal" guns were actually just stolen "legal" guns?

[Dash]

Try again.

 

I'll let you do the research on how many of the 61 mass shootings in the past 20 years were from people who obtained guns legally versus illegally.

Hint: You're going to look foolish for your statement.

 

Mother Jones has tracked and mapped every shooting spree in the last three decades. “Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts to Hawaii,” they found. And in most cases, the killers had obtained their weapons legally:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

 

Regardless of which case is the majority, if you could even reduce the number of mass shootings from say 61 to 55 with stricter laws...how is that not an option worth exploring?

[EastCoastNiner]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

 

Regardless of which case is the majority, if you could even reduce the number of mass shootings from say 61 to 55 with stricter laws...how is that not an option worth exploring?

 

And, you're assuming that criminals are going to obey "stricter gun laws". That's not reality. It's time to snap out of fantasy land.

 

*The shooter in this case didn't go and buy the guns. He was actually turned down because of his paperwork. He got them from his mother who got them legally*

 

All you want to do is make it harder for well behaved citizens to defend themselves in times of need.

Edited December 15, 2012 by EastCoastNiner

[His Greatness]

ECN, are you saying that owning a gun comes with a modicum of responsibility?

[EastCoastNiner]

ECN, are you saying that owning a gun comes with a modicum of responsibility?

 

A mind-blowing revelation, really.

Edited December 15, 2012 by EastCoastNiner

[His Greatness]

revelation

[Teletopez]

 

Running down the DOB column... awful, man

[JYD]

Get off your soap box about gun control. These shootings would still happen whether or not there were stricter gun laws. Criminals get guns because they are criminals. It's probably too late to have any type of gun control. This should be about the innocent children, and not people going on about their gun control views like I'm sure the media will.

 

I'm not bashing you, but this has little to do with gun control.

Absurd. That's a poor excuse to allow these things to continue the status quo and not act upon these continued mass shootings.

 

I agree gun laws are not nearly the only thing. Many crazy people will still find guns. But, do we have to make it so easy?

[Phightins]

Also, time to stop treating mental illness like it's a joke.

[fish7718]

My whole problem with this, if you're going to shoot people why the [expletive] would you shoot up a [expletive]ing elementary school, [expletive]ing disgusting...

[NomarFachix]

Also, time to stop treating mental illness like it's a joke.

Wish it were as easy to get mental health treatment as it were to get, say, a gun.

[fish7718]

Wish it were as easy to get mental health treatment as it were to get, say, a gun.

Most people I know who have guns have illegal guns, plus do you want to make hunting illegal? lol people against gun control in this thread are making little sense sorry, guns don't kill people, people kill people

[fish7718]

Should we outlaw cars? Car accidents kill people

[Phightins]

Should we outlaw cars? Car accidents kill people

 

Silly. Guns do nothing but kill and inflict damage. Cars have a purpose.

[fish7718]

You can hunt with guns, it's a good way to put food on your table.

 

Guns are used in the olympics

 

Guns stop criminals

 

3 uses right off the top

[Phightins]

You can hunt with guns, it's a good way to put food on your table.

 

Guns are used in the olympics

 

Guns stop criminals

 

3 uses right off the top

 

It's 2012. Leave that to the professionals. Adam Lanza does not need a gun.

[NomarFachix]

sorry, guns don't kill people, people kill people

This is a horrible thought process, and is a non-sequitur. Guns make it really damn easy to kill people.

 

I don't think anybody here is saying to outlaw guns entirely, but requiring a background and mental health check every 2 years to renew a purchase license is a good start. Aurora would have never gotten his hands on one, and the Gabby shooter, who was denied entry to the army because he failed his mental health interview, wouldn't have either.

 

It's impossible to stop these things entirely, but there are certainly ways to limit them.