The Artesticle Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 We won't know for sure for a while. Latest report has the Phillies getting Roy Halladay, Phillippe Aumont, and Tyson Gillies (two of Seattle's better prospects), the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, and the Blue Jays getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D'Arnaud (all from the Phillies).I don't know much about prospects, so is this a good deal from the Phillies POV? Seems like we are giving up a [expletive] load for Halladay. I know that Drabek and Taylor are two of our best prospects, and we're packaging them WITH Cliff Lee for Halladay? How do Aumont and Gillies compare to Drabek and Taylor potential wise? It's kind of weird that the management refused to give away the top prospects during the deadline for Halladay, but are now willing to package them with Lee to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I don't know much about prospects, so is this a good deal from the Phillies POV? Seems like we are giving up a [expletive] load for Halladay. I know that Drabek and Taylor are two of our best prospects, and we're packaging them WITH Cliff Lee for Halladay? How do Aumont and Gillies compare to Drabek and Taylor potential wise? It's kind of weird that the management refused to give away the top prospects during the deadline for Halladay, but are now willing to package them with Lee to get him.Yeah if they giving up Drabek Taylor and Lee they are giving up a [expletive]load, Drabek Taylor and Happ is close to what the Jays were asking for at the deadline last year, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Yeah if they giving up Drabek Taylor and Lee they are giving up a [expletive]load, Drabek Taylor and Happ is close to what the Jays were asking for at the deadline last year, I think. but we are also getting those prospects. i have no clue if they are good though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I've heard of Aumont before, I'm pretty sure he was the ace for team Cananda in the WBC. They were talking him up like he was going to be an ace so I guess he's a nice add, I don't know who the other guy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkr Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm upset that Lackey left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdog17k Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 http://www.rotoworld.com/images/photos/MLB/LA/MLB_Pierre_small.jpgReport: ChiSox acquire Pierre from DodgersAccording to Tim Brown of Yahoo! Sports, the White Sox have acquired Juan Pierre in a trade from the Dodgers.Dec. 15 - 10:51 am et Source I guess we got our CF/leadoff hitter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 As of early Tuesday morning, the Phillies were to send their Cy Young Award winner, Cliff Lee, to Seattle, in exchange for pitching prospect Phillippe Aumont and outfielder prospect Tyson Gillies, sources told ESPN.com's Jayson Stark. In addition, ProspectInsider.com reported that the Phillies would get a third Mariners prospect, right-hander Juan Ramirez. The Phillies were to send outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis d'Arnaud and pitcher Kyle Drabek to Toronto, sources told ESPN.com. If all of the names being bandied about wind up in this deal, the Phillies would get back what Baseball America rates as the Mariners' top two pitching prospects, plus Gillies, an outfield prospect they view as being similar to Taylor. So although the Phillies would be giving up two of their most highly regarded prospects in Drabek and Taylor, they would look at this deal as not significantly depleting their system for the long haul. In effect, the Phillies would be trading one Cy Young (Lee) for another (Halladay). And while that may seem difficult to understand from afar, the Phillies clearly view it as a swap that enables them to keep one of those Cy Youngs well into the future -- a less likely scenario if they held on to Lee. from that it seems like they are just two separate trades. they getting halladay, then trading lee for those two or 3 prospects. so its almost the same trade as the deadline one, but the phils are getting some prospects for lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Phillippe Aumont is awesome. I have heard him called a "right-handed Randy Johnson". Real big guy with a power arm. Seattle had moved him to the bullpen but I have a feeling he will become a starter again here. I don't know a whole lot about Tyson Gillies but I have heard he is a hard-nosed, blue collar type guy. Was never that big of a prospect through high school, but has turned himself into one. Not much power but he hit .341 with a .430 OBP and 44 stolen bases in high-A this past year. The third guy we are getting from Seattle is Juan Ramirez and I would be lying if I said I knew anything about him. He is a young right handed pitcher, looks like he has struggled a bit in pro-ball so far. Apparently he is also a hard-thrower. I will read more about him in the coming days. As for what we are giving up, it obviously hurts to lose Kyle Drabek, but it hurts a lot less now that we are getting Aumont too. IMO, it has been inevitable that Taylor was going to be traded for a while now. They like Dom Brown a lot, and most feel he has a higher ceiling than Taylor. Taylor is MLB ready now, and obviously is blocked in all 3 outfield spots here, so this is a good thing for him since he is going to get a chance to play. I actually read that Toronto plans to trade him to Oakland for Brett Wallace, so I guess Taylor will get that chance to play in Oakland. The other prospect we're giving up, Travis D'Arnaud, everybody was super-high on him at the beginning of this year when Carlos Ruiz was a question mark. Now that Ruiz has proven to be a legit MLB starting catcher who is still relatively young, we don't really need to have a great catching prospect. So, it seems like the Phillies are giving up a ton, but when you break it down it's not as much as it seems at first. It's basically swapping 1 year of Cliff Lee for 4 (or more) years of Roy Halladay, all while keeping the farm system relatively in tact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) how close is aumont to mlb ready? and is brown gonna be in the trade? i heard his name before but now im not as much Edited December 15, 2009 by fly3rs18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 (edited) how close is aumont to mlb ready? and is brown gonna be in the trade? i heard his name before but now im not as much Not sure how close Aumont is. He was just drafted two years ago and has never pitched as a starter above high-A so I'd imagine he is still a year or 2 off at best. But it depends if they leave him in the bullpen or not (he has pitched as a closer in AA). It usually takes relief pitchers a shorter time to get through the minors than it takes starters. And Brown is not in the trade. Edited December 15, 2009 by Phightins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Situation Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Angels got so bad in this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Not sure how close Aumont is. He was just drafted two years ago and has never pitched as a starter above high-A so I'd imagine he is still a year or 2 off at best. But it depends if they leave him in the bullpen or not (he has pitched as a closer in AA). It usually takes relief pitchers a shorter time to get through the minors than it takes starters. And Brown is not in the trade. and who is better, aumont or drabek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 and who is better, aumont or drabek? Probably Drabek but it's close. They both have a history of injuries too. Drabek had Tommy John and Aumont has also had elbow problems I think. Who knows who will have a better MLB career. As a whole, the group the Phillies are sending to Toronto is probably better than the group we are getting from Seattle, but I don't think it's that big of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Wolf Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 I'm a little confused about the Cameron signing to the Red Sox. He's a little overrated in my opinion. I just wonder where Bay and Beltre will land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 As a whole, the group the Phillies are sending to Toronto is probably better than the group we are getting from Seattle, but I don't think it's that big of a difference. well yeah. halladay is also better then lee so its fine. also who knows if lee will sign with them. it could just be a 1 year rental (would be so stupid for seattle) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted December 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 well yeah. halladay is also better then lee so its fine. also who knows if lee will sign with them. it could just be a 1 year rental (would be so stupid for seattle) It isn't really stupid for Seattle. Worst case is they don't sign him long term/trade him at the deadline, and they lose him to free agency and get two very high compensation picks in the 2011 draft for him. It's the money-ball philosophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teletopez Posted December 15, 2009 Report Share Posted December 15, 2009 Aroldis Chapman, the unsigned 21-year-old pitcher from Cuba, threw a bullpen session Tuesday morning for about 50 Major League scouts, impressing them with his size and velocity. "The kid's got a great arm," Houston Astros general manager Ed Wade said of the 6-foot-4 Chapman. "He's a physical specimen. He's left-handed. He throws hard. Obviously, anybody would be interested in an arm like this. He's got some great stuff. The early feedback from our guys, and everybody else, is he's a tremendous talent." "He's a hard thrower from the left side," said David Lakey, national cross checker for the New York Mets. "I think they said [he hit 96 mph on the radar gun]. That kind of arm is hard to find from the left side." Chapman reportedly reached 102 mph on a gun at the World Baseball Classic in March, though he did not pitch effectively. Full Article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish7718 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I have the same feeling I think a lot of ppl do, why did the Phillies give up Cliff Lee so quick? They could have dealt him at the deadline or such they must be very high on Aumont. The goal is to win a world series no? Halladay Lee Hamels.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I have the same feeling I think a lot of ppl do, why did the Phillies give up Cliff Lee so quick? They could have dealt him at the deadline or such they must be very high on Aumont. The goal is to win a world series no? Halladay Lee Hamels.. Simple: They do not have a $160 million budget. Apparently they tried to deal Joe Blanton first, but they could not find somebody willing to take his entire salary and give enough back to make it worth it. They figured they were going to lose Lee anyway so they wanted to pick up another premier pitcher so that they do not miss a step in the next 3-4 years (which most would agree is the "window" for this current group to win). So since they were going to lose Lee anyway and they wanted Halladay, they decided to recoup the prospects they lost to trade for Doc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Artesticle Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 I'm hearing that Aumont has back problems already at such a young age. That can't be good, can it? Hopefully it isn't too serious. I'm kind of mixed about this trade to be honest. Halladay is probably the best pitcher in the game, but I'm not liking all the pieces we parted ways with. Why didn't we just swing a deal for him last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) I'm hearing that Aumont has back problems already at such a young age. That can't be good, can it? Hopefully it isn't too serious. I'm kind of mixed about this trade to be honest. Halladay is probably the best pitcher in the game, but I'm not liking all the pieces we parted ways with. Why didn't we just swing a deal for him last year? Kyle Drabek had Tommy John surgery a couple years ago as well. Also, Michael Taylor had absolutely no future here and does not have nearly as high a ceiling as Dom Brown (I still have no idea why the Jays didn't demand Brown be part of the trade). And Travis D'Arnaud? I am sure the Phillies were thrilled when the Jays asked that he be the final piece of the deal. The Jays have loved him for a while now, for some reason. He is middle of the road at best. The package we got back (Aumont, Gillies, and Ramirez) is almost as good as what we gave up (Drabek, Taylor, and D'Arnaud). Whatever difference there may be was certainly made up for with the fact that we now have Halladay for at least 4 years, while it would have just been 1 and done for Lee. As for why they didn't do this in July. In July, Roy Halladay did not want to sign an extension right away. He had the approach Cliff Lee has right now, he wanted to get to free agency. He had a change of heart at some point between then and now. Essentially, Doc completely drove the bus with this trade. Also, I think Phillies fans will love this even more come next year when Lee gets his new contract. The Halladay contract will look like a bargain. Edited December 16, 2009 by Phightins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brand New Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 http://www.rotoworld.com/images/photos/MLB/LA/MLB_Pierre_small.jpgReport: ChiSox acquire Pierre from Dodgers Source I guess we got our CF/leadoff hitter?Yup. Juan Pierre is a great player, he is going to contribute a lot to the white sox. He is a good man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Next Knick Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 Ah Matsui on the Angels, and we get our rings when the Angels visit us for or first homestand of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly3rs18 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove09/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=4746360 decent article about the trade if you still have no idea whats going on first time ever that a cy young winner was traded for another cy young winner and amaro has acquired 3 former cy young winners over the past few months. pedro, lee, and halladay Edited December 16, 2009 by fly3rs18 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phightins Posted December 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms8rMqKxoXQ&feature=player_embedded Haha, why even waste the time trying to get an interview? No kidding he's not going to be able to talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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